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Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

phys.org

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Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#201

Post by objektif »

savingsPossible wrote: post #189
objektif wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, see my post above. People think that becoming a rich psycho is somehow great. Montessori schools I visited were depressing AF.

Agree that they are rich psychos. Disagree that this means the probabilistic signal is negative. They did become especially capable psychos.

There is no signal here whatsoever. Elon and Steve which I considers the best entrepreneurs in our life time did not go to so called Montessori schools. Also let us not clump all alternative schooling systems as Montessori.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#202

Post by objektif »

7thaccount wrote: post #136
objektif wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We visited multiple Montessori schools for both my kids and I can confidently say that I met some of the saddest and coldest teachers I have ever seen in my life. I am not sure that is really best environment for small kids. I myself went to shitty public schools and became an exceptional student later on. I am doubtful about the impact of early education on future success.

I never went to Montessori, but did cub scouts at one and those were some odd kids and parents. I felt like I was on an alien planet. Not bad people or anything, just certainly different. Like they took a class on how to act human, but lost something in translation. I do recall there being a lot of toys and stuff. There was an old Texas Instruments computer that caught my interest as we had computers with Windows 95…

Agreed. But that is not necessarily the Montessori system. Plus you can kind of do that yourself to your kid and not expect the school system to do that. Unfortunately we live in a real world and teaching is a job just like any. No one else other than you will have the best incentives to see your kids succeed.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#203

Post by objektif »

gen220 wrote: post #192
objektif wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We visited multiple Montessori schools for both my kids and I can confidently say that I met some of the saddest and coldest teachers I have ever seen in my life. I am not sure that is really best environment for small kids. I myself went to shitty public schools and became an exceptional student later on. I am doubtful about the impact of early education on future success.

Not intending to be rude, but the common denominator here might be the region these schools are based in, vs the particular flavor of education. A close family member of mine has taught Montessori for 30 years at the same school. The school has changed a lot in those 30 years (for the worse, unfortunately), but it’s nothing to do with the education methods and everything to do with broader trends in the area.

Not rude at all I live in NYC. Education methods mean nothing if they are not executed well. Plus I want my kids to decent human beings above all.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#204

Post by bonoboTP »

em-bee wrote: post #161
bonoboTP wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't contradicting me. Teachers who pass the tests required for this probably are from the top of their teacher cohort regarding intelligence, consciousness, empathy, motivation etc and they are likely better paid, so less stressed from life stuff like bills or whatever. The peers all come from non-random families who generally have good life outcomes either way. These kids will model good behavioral norms. If…

my point is that if we give every teacher montessori training, the teacher quality would rise.

Okay, that's an empirical question. I rather doubt it and think that the more adept teachers are more likely to apply there and to get through it. It's a filtering mechanism.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#205

Post by pton_xd »

NedF wrote: post #117
WillAdams wrote: post #32

My children attended Montessori schools, and it really is a wonderful system. I would really like to see an extension of this learning method up through high school --- the closest thing I'm aware of was a school I attended in Mississippi for a couple of years --- classes were divided between academic and social, social classes (homeroom, phys ed, social studies, &c.) were attended at one's age, while academic classe…

> and it really is a wonderful system. Absolutely, how many ghetto kids are in the school? It weeds them out through $ and expulsions. Thinking the Montessori system is relevant to the public system shows your schooling failed. Montessori has the ability to chose pedagogy so certainly has facets that are the quite good and should be applied publicly except for liberal arts graduate ideals. This study is very young ch…

> Discipline is the only thing that matters in schools

I thought it was parenting? This study claims that "parental involvement is a more significant factor in a child’s academic performance than the qualities of the school itself." [0]

I couldn't find better sources on my phone but this is a theme I've heard repeated over and over throughout my life. Parenting makes the difference.

[0] https://news.ncsu.edu/2012/10/wms-parcel-parents/

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#207

Post by thaumasiotes »

mcv wrote: post #194
thaumasiotes wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My oldest son, despite his stellar IQ, completely drowned in projects. No idea what to do, when to start, how to start, how to finish it, and even when he finished it, he forgot to turn it in. He simply needs more guidance. > He's now finally getting better at it, at 16, which is about time, because at the university, you have to be able to do all of this. You definitely don't.

Struggling with this is exactly why I never quite finished my degree. All the papers where I had to choose what to write about, without having an immediate topic I just had to write about, never even got started. Thesis is an even bigger project. Dropping out and not having to do it anymore felt like a relief.

At my university, a thesis was one option. You could substitute a middling GRE score.

American universities are pretty keen to graduate you if that's plausible at all. See also: remedial classes.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#208

Post by a5seo »

gen220 wrote: post #192
objektif wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We visited multiple Montessori schools for both my kids and I can confidently say that I met some of the saddest and coldest teachers I have ever seen in my life. I am not sure that is really best environment for small kids. I myself went to shitty public schools and became an exceptional student later on. I am doubtful about the impact of early education on future success.

Not intending to be rude, but the common denominator here might be the region these schools are based in, vs the particular flavor of education. A close family member of mine has taught Montessori for 30 years at the same school. The school has changed a lot in those 30 years (for the worse, unfortunately), but it’s nothing to do with the education methods and everything to do with broader trends in the area.

I agree. In Austin, Montessori preschools tend to be more rigid and doctrinaire. I don’t know if this is true everywhere, but they also tend to have disproportionately high representation of immigrant families. My impression, based on 8 years of interactions at two different Montessori schools, is immigrant parents seem more deferential toward the teachers and administrators. And more interested in measurable academic outcomes. So the schools respond by keeping the kids on a more linear path with engaging the various “works” (Montessorispeak for projects or learning kits). That said, I think it’s still a great system.

I grew up attending a public elementary school in Sacramento that implemented Open Education. It had many similarities to Montessori— kids received a weekly “contract” with their personalized learning plan and assignments due. If you wanted to do all your math work on Monday, reading on Tuesday, and spend Wednesday through Friday on science, you could (within reason since some things required group lessons). It was an amazing system and I feel extremely fortunate to have experienced it.

That said, now I kind of wonder how much the California open-minded, seeker mentality was responsible for this.

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/03/27/520953343/open-sc...

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#209

Post by em-bee »

antasvara wrote: post #198
em-bee wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also pretty far behind in math for reasons unrelated to ability. I also left with very underdeveloped time management and study skills. if that is the case you didn't experience a good montessori program, because that should have taken care of that.

Nope, fully accredited Montessori school and trained Montessori teachers. I'm actually a huge fan of Montessori schools, including the one I went to. It was a great experience. But in my experience and the experience of a lot of others I've talked to, Montessori schools aren't perfect. The method does really well fostering natural curiosity and harnessing it for learning. Essentially, it develops internal motivation…

the method struggles with students that can't find that internal motivation

it was my impression that this should not be a problem, but i have to admit that my knowledge and experience with montessori is not enough to understand why this would or would not be the case.

if this is really a problem, it needs to be addressed, and i would find it surprising if it hasn't already been solved in the meantime. i don't believe that this is a new problem.

Re: Public Montessori programs strengthen learning outcomes at lower costs: study

#210

Post by em-bee »

bonoboTP wrote: post #204
em-bee wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my point is that if we give every teacher montessori training, the teacher quality would rise.

Okay, that's an empirical question. I rather doubt it and think that the more adept teachers are more likely to apply there and to get through it. It's a filtering mechanism.

if montessori is adopted as part of a national or state curriculum then there would not be a filter anymore. and i do not think may people would fail the training. from what i saw it is rigorous and intensive, but it is not difficult. certainly not more difficult that traditional teacher education. the only teachers that would struggle would be lazy ones that enter the training with a preconceived idea of what teaching is about and find that idea challenged.
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