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Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

blog.torproject.org

201–210 of 241 posts

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#201
post #177

Did you know.. Mozilla get >80% of its revenue from Google, by making Google Search as default search engine on Firefox. While Mozilla pretends to be a non-profit, its CEO makes millions of dollars annually. Mitchell Baker: Stepped down as CEO of Mozilla in February 2024. Her salary for 2023 was reported to be $6.9 million. Laura Chambers: Became interim CEO of Mozilla in February 2024. Mozilla has not disclosed her…

Non-profits are headed but also staffed with the same ambititious types as for-profit businesses. If you think only Mozilla pays its CEO attractively, you are misinformed. Managerial talent costs, and non-profit CEOs, in my direct experience, use the same lateral pay package comparisons to other non-profit CEOs to justify their comp packages. The whole point of carving out an alternate rules space for non-profits in…

So where are those millions of dollars to Mozilla from Google really going?

Mozilla has a staff of around 1700 employees in USA, but it has 1000+ volunteers. Are those volunteers getting a fair share of the profits of this non-profit company? If not, why not?

And even with all that half a billion dollars of revenue every year, why is Mozilla Firefox have a barely ~2% market share?

OK, Let's talk basics and real stuff..

Why has Firefox failed or deliberately delayed to give basic features for years that its major competitors have had for years?

Why is a company getting millions of dollars (from its biggest competitor) for doing the bare minimum (or is that a quid pro quo deal between them)? "Too little, too late" seems to be the norm at Firefox and Mozilla in past few years.

e.g., Firefox users have been demanding Tab Grouping for years (and the other major browsers have had Tab Grouping feature for years), but it was only in April 2025 that Mozilla finally gave that basic feature in Firefox: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/tab-groups-community/

Or is that the implicit deal between Google and Mozilla. "Hey puppet, if you want the carrot, then just keep your head down, and just tick along doing barely anything new, and let me control the world as I see fit."

I'm genuinely wondering: if any other decent non-Chromium FOSS browser got half a billion dollars every year, would it give some tough competition to Chrome and Safari?

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#202

Didn’t know Firefox had an “AI sidebar” https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ai-chatbot Seems to be unconnected to any model and off by default.

It's super useful for power users. You can connect any model you like through ollama (or similar services) and use your own pre-defined prompts to run against the selected text on websites simply from right click context menu.

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#203
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found it super nice. Similar to the “AI should be an assistant programmer, not an independent dev”, having Claude there and being able to ask questions about specific topics while I read is fantastic. Especially for scientific papers that are outside my specialty (i.e. all of them.)

Have you heard of tabs?

Have you heard of the HN guidelines?

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like we are going to need a lot of volunteer effort to help remove all the AI garbage out of all these projects that insist on jamming AI into themselves.

This week the GZDoom project forked into UZDoom after a maintainer force-pushed AI-generated code into the repo. Thankfully, it failed to compile and other maintainers caught it before it made it out, but the decision to fork came down pretty quickly.

The creator was allegedly a massive asshole for years and him randomly reappearing after a year, only to force push shitty code that didn't work, was the last straw. It wasn't just because it was AI code.

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#205

I hope Orion (from Kagi) gains more traction and follows through w/ open-sourcing everything. Privacy-first, 0-telemetry, performant, capable... just not OSS (yet).

Orion is a WebKit fork which is nice to have but Linux support seems so far off (is there a modern project that builds WebKit on Linux or windows at all?)

I have been satisfied with moving to Zen, a Firefox fork that behaves like the late Arc browser

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else does Waterfox remove? Does it still support signining in with a Mozilla account to enable sync features? Would be nice to see a comprehensive list somewhere; I couldn't see anything on the Waterfox homepage or the GitHub README.

You can see here[1], I'll avoid pasting again. But yes, can still use a Mozilla account and the website is getting a refurb - I will add a third hard thing in computer science.. letting people know all the things you've actually built :') [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=43206110

I think it would help to put some of this on your site. When I land on the main waterfox page it looks like just firefox but reskinned. I'm not saying that's what it actually is (clearly it isn't) but it can help having some clarity about this. I mean it isn't like you're being shy about building off of firefox, so why not mention it?

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#207

I hope Orion (from Kagi) gains more traction and follows through w/ open-sourcing everything. Privacy-first, 0-telemetry, performant, capable... just not OSS (yet).

I use it on my iPhone because I can actually get ad blocking but it is also the glitchiest browser I've ever used. Worth it for no ads, but that's kinda Apple's issue.

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#208
Something weird I've noticed in Firefox lately -- and been wondering if it's related to these sorts of features -- is that if I leave Firefox open for a relatively long time (e.g. a few hours) NoScript will show whatever my search engine is set to as a script injection on all pages (with a "sidebar?" note). This happens even if I do not interact with the browser during that time. If I restart Firefox, then it goes away (until a long period of time elapses again).

Anyone have insight on why that's happening?

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welp, here we go again. The CEO pay is slightly more than 1% of their revenue, which sure, I don't love, but they're not like secretly poisoning kittens or something which is how you're making it sound. Those salaries actually seem pretty normal, and I don't think anything other than ordinary information literacy is necessary to understand they have a non-profit foundation side by side with the corporation, it's not…

OK, Let's talk basics and real stuff.. Why is a company getting millions of dollars (from its biggest competitor) for doing the bare minimum (or is that a quid pro quo deal between them)? "Too little, too late" seems to be the norm at Firefox and Mozilla in past few years. Firefox users have been demanding Tab Grouping for years (and the other major browsers have had Tab Grouping feature for years), but it was only i…

Yes, lets talk real stuff! Firefox invented tab grouping a decade before it existed in Chrome, and sustained an extension ecosystem with full access to browser UI, such that tab grouping extensions long were possible in Firefox that were not possible in Chrome. It's never been gone, and adding a new natively supported iteration is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Mozilla maintains 32 million lines of code, roughly the same amount as Chromium, with by some estimates, less than a tenth of the resources Google dedicates to Chrome. That return on investment spans everything from leading on development of major new web standards, e.g. WebAssembly, WebRTC, DNS over HTTPs, limiting cookies, profile sandboxing. It also includes Rust, key to their major "Quantum" project which by itself was a monumental achievement which rebuilt the browser on a stable, secure, memory safe foundation. Even Chrome is now starting to use Rust, Mozilla's language, for parts of its browser.

They have a rapid patch cadence for security fixes, and their browser is the heart of an ecosystem including Tor, Waterfox, LiberWolf, Mull, and others for niche, hardened or performance tuned variations that depend on Gecko. Tor, in particular, is relied on to get around censorship in parts of the world that try to control internet traffic.

And there's the monopoly issue, which is that if we lost Firefox, every active browser engine would be owned by two trillion dollar platform companies, Google and Apple, who could write the rules of the internet on their own. Which includes, among other things, trying to dismantle ad blockers and lock you into their ecosystems.

The totality of its return on investment across security, open standards and browser independence has been irreplaceable, and overlooking that because they didn't roll out a tab feature fast enough is mind-boggling lack of comprehension of the full scale of what Mozilla produces from beginning to end.

Re: Tor browser removing various Firefox AI features

#210

SIDEBAR! The invention straight from the 90s. Fucking browsers and their antiquated approach. NEW THING? Put it on a SIDEBAR! pffffffff Make the fucking old and ugly browser interface customizable. And expose this to webpages, so banks could force you to use the default view.

Yeah, I will say I don't understand the value add here. I used to be able to have a webpage in a sidebar with Opera back in like 2009. That version of Opera, imo, is still more satisfying browsing experience to me even than modern browsers.
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