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German government comes out against Chat Control

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#201

Post by zmgsabst »

glenstein wrote: post #150
zaphar wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am unclear on how strong nationalism is an authoritarian signal. Can you go into more detail there?

Well the Axis powers from World War II are the most obvious demonstrations of nationalism begetting authoritarianism. Germany, Italy, and Japan were nationalist in the extreme. And Italy from that time is such a clear example that it's basically the canonical example used to teach how fascism emerges. Contemporary examples include the Philippines, Hungary, Poland's Law and Justice Party, and arguably Russia, Turkey a…

But that would only be something nationalism signaled if the converse weren’t also true — eg, totalitarian states like the USSR, CCP, etc.

Those also had:

- grievance narratives;

- a tendency to divide the world into loyal citizens and enemies; and,

- use the above to justify authoritarian powers.

You haven’t shown that nationalism played a particular part in that cycle; just that it also happened in nationalist states. Almost like the problem is those factors, rather than nationalism.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#202

Post by iamnothere »

lxgr wrote: post #179
dylan604 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can't share the compiled binary, but you can share a shirt. if you have the shirt, you can compile on your own. the t-shirt became the sharing network

That’s the thing about speech: It’s very hard for governments to physically prevent it, but attaching consequences to making use of that capability usually works just as well.

The government failed to stop the spread of the DeCSS code and subsequent tools that were developed using that code. That’s kind of the point.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#204

Post by sally_glance »

ho_schi wrote: post #145

The CDU/CSU is doing something good. That didn't happened for a long time? I appreciate it. Ausgerechnet Spahn. Manchmal glaubt man seinen Augen und Ohren nicht. Wir müssen Wachsam bleiben. Mit dem Argument das es böse Menschen gibt, wurde schon viel böses getan. Massenüberwachung zerstört jede Gesellschaft. Deutschland hat mehrfach darunter gelitten. Und die Versuche Massenüberwachung einzuführen wiederholen sich.

I'm not following. What exactly are you trying to say and how does it relate to OP?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#205

Post by brikym »

voldacar wrote: post #183

The EU tries something like this every few years. If you don't want this to happen, you have to win every time, while they only have to win once. It's an unsustainable situation.

It's not going to get reversed once they're able to analyze all comms automatically for wrong think and stop 'extremist groups' because something 'Nazi'. The Stati letter steamers could only dream of such a system.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#206

Post by sally_glance »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #166
petre wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they've learned something from history and they're not doing the AfD a service before they grab onto more power? Or maybe this course of action is just more convenient at this time? Probably the latter.

> Maybe they've learned something from history and they're not doing the AfD a service before they grab onto more power? The lesson from history is to keep the autocrats from grabbing power. Trying to contrain them with laws ex ante hasn't worked since like Cicero. I'm not sure Berlin opposing Chat Control fits into their domestic anti-authoritarian arc.

Bravo. Great start, disappointing conclusion. Why are you not sure?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#208

Post by powerhouse007 »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #23
ZeroConcerns wrote: post #3

OK, really hot take here: -ChatControl, as it is currently defined, is not going to happen, because it's absolutely stupid and would make impossible, amongst other things, online banking -Yet, there is a growing and legitimate demand for lawful interception of 'chat' services. I mean, "sure, your bank account got emptied, but we can't look into that because it happened via Signal" just isn't a good look -So, somethin…

A hot take: removing protections guaranteed by constitution should require modification of the constitution. There is already a "temporary" European regulation [1] that is in violation of the German constitution [2]. CSAR would be a further erosion of the legal foundation. Americans were happy when their federal laws that restrict marijuana use were simply ignored by executive fiat without proper processes, well, the…

[dead]

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#209

Post by powerhouse007 »

Anyone who researched this topic knows one thing about cp: it's not made by predators, it's made by children. Overwhelmingly.

It's a lame excuse.

They are using the A word exactly like they used the self-A word for self-pleasure a few decades earlier.

Raise your hand who's never used your phone to create some A word material as a child.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#210

Post by whycombinetor »

codethief wrote: post #148

Netzpolitik.org says it's not decided yet: https://netzpolitik.org/2025/eu-ueberwachungsplaene-unionsfr... Jens Spahn, the speaker in the video OP shared, is not a member of the government but a leading member of the parliament and of one of the ruling parties. A tiny but important difference.

My American brain: "The legislature is a branch of the government!"
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