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Social Cooling (2017)

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Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#201

Post by pseudalopex »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #122
pseudalopex wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A declaration of rebellion is more than criticism.

Depends on the government. Also, depends on the organization. Some companies will fire your ass, or even find a way to sanction you, for talking back to the boss.

> Depends on the government.

Not always then. Notably not in the recent history of the countries most relevant to this discussion.

> Also, depends on the organization. Some companies will fire your ass, or even find a way to sanction you, for talking back to the boss.

Talking back has different meanings. Some are reasonable grounds for dismissal. Some are not. Companies should be less autocratic. Being fired even unjustly is not like being executed.

Your fatalism and false comparisons are boring.

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#202

Post by dgfitz »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #196
blargey wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joining the crowd to express approval for extremism (or equally extreme disapproval) has a much lower bar than making the "top-level" statements you refer to, though. Inflammatory content is constantly rewarded with a firehose of such "engagement", and it's coming from the vast populace that's supposedly averse to drama.

Suppose there is an arsonist setting fire to random houses. They come by and throw a Molotov cocktail through your window. We then observe that you immediately drop everything to deal with the fire. Should the conclusion be that you love arson and enjoy spending time on it? More importantly, do we like a system where the arsonist is rewarded for getting you to spend time on something?

Are you making an analogy of having a moral obligation to engage in a flame war online?

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#203

Post by pseudalopex »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #123
nothrabannosir wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, hell, that's even older. So is slavery. Whether it’s reversion to the mean or an innovation by modern society is orthogonal to the question of “are we going downhill as a society.” We are, in this particular respect.

Of course, but “new” is not necessarily “good,” and “old” is not necessarily “bad.” As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to learn that “It Depends,” is a mantra for life. Experience has taught me how to understand the choices. When I was younger, I wasn’t able to understand, so everything was “binary.” Failing to learn from history is a time-honored rite of passage. If we paid more attention to history, we’d see that our…

[flagged]

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#204

Post by AnthonyMouse »

dgfitz wrote: post #202
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose there is an arsonist setting fire to random houses. They come by and throw a Molotov cocktail through your window. We then observe that you immediately drop everything to deal with the fire. Should the conclusion be that you love arson and enjoy spending time on it? More importantly, do we like a system where the arsonist is rewarded for getting you to spend time on something?

Are you making an analogy of having a moral obligation to engage in a flame war online?

Suppose this is inherent in human nature:

https://xkcd.com/386/

Now decide if you would like something that works differently than Facebook to replace it.

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#205

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

pseudalopex wrote: post #201
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the government. Also, depends on the organization. Some companies will fire your ass, or even find a way to sanction you, for talking back to the boss.

> Depends on the government. Not always then. Notably not in the recent history of the countries most relevant to this discussion. > Also, depends on the organization. Some companies will fire your ass, or even find a way to sanction you, for talking back to the boss. Talking back has different meanings. Some are reasonable grounds for dismissal. Some are not. Companies should be less autocratic. Being fired even unj…

Aw, sorry to have hurt your feelings. That wasn’t my intention.

My sincere apologies.

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#206

Post by only-one1701 »

diggan wrote: post #78
microtonal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is really hard to extrapolate from single examples. My first two years were a little like that. Then I had to repeat a school year, got in the nicest class imaginable and had five incredibly fun years that I look back at with a lot of fondness. Having a kid myself, I think life is much worse now. There is the constant unconscious fear of getting filmed, etc. It was much easier for my generation to just exp…

> Having a kid myself, I think life is much worse now. There is the constant unconscious fear of getting filmed, etc. It was much easier for my generation to just experiment, do stupid stuff, etc., you know being a child/teenager, without the fear of repercussions. I don't know what generation you belong to, but I was still in school when mobile phones that could record video became "good enough" that most of my peer…

I'm two years older than you, and the difference you need to key in on is how much more time kids (like everyone) spend on their phone now vs 2008 or whatever.

It was uncommon (and lame) to film EVERYTHING and put it on YouTube or whatever. Embarrassing (or yes, tragic) things leaked sometimes, but now it feels like something being made public is the norm, not the exception. And that sucks.

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#207

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

pseudalopex wrote: post #203
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but “new” is not necessarily “good,” and “old” is not necessarily “bad.” As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to learn that “It Depends,” is a mantra for life. Experience has taught me how to understand the choices. When I was younger, I wasn’t able to understand, so everything was “binary.” Failing to learn from history is a time-honored rite of passage. If we paid more attention to history, we’d see that our…

[flagged]

Aw, I really seemed to have upset you.

That wasn’t my intention. I won’t get into fights, here, and I try to give the benefit of the doubt.

Have a great day!

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#208

Post by only-one1701 »

ajross wrote: post #143
polio wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just happens to be the consensus opinion for their group. Kids have never cared about being accepted by people 20 years older than they are; kids have always cared about being accepted by their peers. Social cooling means that dissent from their peer group is harder.

> This just happens to be the consensus opinion for their group. That becomes non-falsifiable then. Everyone everywhere from every period in history has been part of some in-group or another with a consistent scripture/canon/creed/whatever. No one ( especially nerd king HN commenters like us) is truly an independent thinker in the way you're constructing. The claim upthread was that modern kids were afraid of consens…

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. The surveillance here isn't Palinitr; it's TikTok. And the kids love TikTok.

Same goes for pissing off their elders -- as the comment above said, it's about their peers, not society at large, who matter (as it is for all of us).

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#209

Post by ComplexSystems »

nathan_compton wrote: post #137
arthurofbabylon wrote: post #34

The Americans (†) who grew up with constant surveillance (social media, cameras everywhere) aim for ordinariness. The entire generation is less likely to express a non-consensus opinion than prior generations. For good reason: with everything being recorded and broadcast, personal errors are both accentuated and persist longer with no corresponding rise in upside. Bold opinions and creative ideas are simply too risky…

People say this but is it true? Young people, for instance, increasingly say that political violence may be justified. That doesn't sound like a safe opinion.

If a politically violent movement breaks out and is successful enough to become even quasi-mainstream, having a history of supporting them may be the only safe opinion.

Re: Social Cooling (2017)

#210

Post by jonahx »

softwaredoug wrote: post #133

This site makes the wrong conclusion. People game their social scores by being provocative edgelords. There’s almost no incentive on social media to conform. And every incentive to stand out. Just look around at our political situation, you see far less conformity, and extremes in political expression. We even elected President Edgelord.

Yes, provocation is a viable strategy for clicks and audience-building, but few people are attempting that, and among those who do it's not the only strategy.

Everywhere else -- in corporate America, on Facebook, at churches and family gatherings, even with many friends -- conformity is still the norm, and there are more landmine topics than ever.

Social cooling is real.

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