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Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

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Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#201
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the bully who keeps attacking their neighbours didn't want anyone to protect their neighbours. Going along with this seems like a terrible idea, if you value the bully not slowly expanding until they're your neighbour.

It's precisely this mindset, "us vs them", that neutral states cannot exist, which is at the heart of current escalation.

"I only burglarized your home because you threatened to join the neighborhood watch" isn't the ironclad defense of Russian imperialism you seem to think it is.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#202
post #67

Is there some reason Europeans should go to war to satisfy the desires of American organizations? Is there some reason European citizens should go to war to satisfy the desires of _political_ scientists - a dubious category at best? Or to put it another way - why don't the political scientists at these American organizations put on their fighting gear and go fight in Ukraine?

>Is there some reason Europeans should go to war to satisfy the desires of American organizations? That is the wrong question. The question is: Is there some reason Europeans should go to war when Russia invades a European country in order to annex it by force? The answer is yes. The reason is not letting force impose over things like democracy or rights. If Europeans do we(I am European) will become slaves. It happe…

Well I am Polish, and no, you don't have to explain it.

But both America and Europe are very inconsistent on the matter; for example, the EU has placed something like 19 sanction packages on Russia. But it has placed none on Israel, despite the fact that Israel, since even just 2023, has bombed the Yemen president, invaded Lebanon, Syria and well, and killed large numbers of Palestinian people; I will let the lawyers discuss what variation of war crime that counts as.

Furthermore, when Poland helped the US, the UK and Australia invade Afghanistan and Iraq there was apparently no concern about about turning people into slaves, occupation, making Afghanistan/Iraq poorer.

Allow me to quote: An estimated over 940,000 people were killed by direct post-9/11 war violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, and Pakistan between 2001-2023. Of these, more than 432,000 were civilians. The number of people wounded or ill as a result of the conflicts is far higher, as is the number of civilians who died “indirectly,” as a result of wars’ destruction of economies, healthcare systems, infrastructure and the environment. An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting. https://costsofwar.watson.brown.edu/costs/human

Are you concerned about Western imperialism, and if not, why not?

As a historical note, the equivocation between Soviet/Stalin and Hitler is at best inaccurate. If you're Polish, presumably you know about "General Plan Ost" that aimed to eradicate 85% of the Polish population and similar numbers of other Slavic nations; while Stalin was a terrible dictator (which even Putin has mentioned in interviews), the crimes of the Soviets against Poland pale in comparison.

You can oppose Putin if you wish; but you will only destroy Europe's future, which the Americans will smile at as they buy up your industry and prosperity. Unfortunately, the hatred of Russians outweighs the Europe's comprehension of its own self interest.

Re: Europe Can No Longer Ignore That It's Under Russian Attack

#203
post #160

Can and will, Ukraine shoulda never gave up those nukes.

This Slate article debunked it with declassified documents: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/01/ukraine-nuclear-...

That makes sense, but still, the assurances of protection, nothing flash there.
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