Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#201

Post by beeflet » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:33 AM UTC

afavour wrote: post #92

beeflet wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wrongdoing is supporting this company's dominance, which enables this level of censorship.

Supporting it is still not complicity though. Wrongdoing, sure.

Whatever the word is, the cause and effect is this:

1. Apple users tolerate the status quo through inaction, which is the centralized distribution of software. 2. Governments take advantage of this status quo to control apple users.

If it was the case that the OS was open, then the US Gov. would have no leverage to prevent the distribution of the software mentioned in the article. However apple's stakeholders enable and justify the centralized software distribution as a feature rather than a bug.

Developers are in on it too: the locked-down ecosystem is more lucrative for them because there are higher entry costs to producing software, and thus reduced competition. It prevents piracy for example, at the cost of preventing the distribution of pretty much all open source software.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#202

Post by JeremyNT » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:33 AM UTC

Zak wrote: post #18

This is exactly what's wrong with Apple's app store exclusivity. It's also what's wrong with mandatory notarization where regulations forbid that, and Google's plan to require developer verification.

Precisely. They could simply say "not our problem" and move along if they didn't have this capability.

But since it exists, it can be abused.

I keep hoping enough people inside Google still give a shit to push back on their plan, but I'm not banking on it.

The idea of a world where users have no control over their own devices is just too attractive for the oligarchs.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#203

Post by goku12 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:33 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #151

beeflet wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no hope that the solution can be solved through lawfare. The ability of one company to control what the vast majority of people can do with their phones is unacceptable, regardless of what happens with this one app.

The vast majority of the people on this planet have never touched an iphone. Android dominates basically everywhere outside north america and, interestingly, the DPRK.

Google does the same with the rest of the population, don't they? The methods are different, but the results are the same.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#204

Post by CrossVR » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:36 AM UTC

concinds wrote: post #199

andsoitis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re still not shaming me.

Okay. So your point was not really: "I disagree on moral philosophy, responsibility and the attribution of guilt", it was: "I support Apple's centralized control on all apps you can run, but I don't want to be criticized for the moral implications of state control, censorship and authoritarianism, nor do I want to defend my position on the merits". That's cheap.

It's more like: "I support Apple's centralized control on all apps you can run, as long as that monopoly is only used to squeeze out competition and not for censorship."

Of course government censorship becomes a lot easier if you only need to put pressure on one company.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#205

Post by heavyset_go » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:40 AM UTC

saurik wrote: post #8

FWIW, everyone who claims that Apple fundamentally needs the centralized ability to control apps on their platforms "for everyone's safety" -- despite how that obviously and repeatedly makes them become patsies for governments all over the world to enforce their censorship regimes -- are complicit in this stuff (in addition, of course, to the people who build it at Apple...).

Genuinely hope you're successful with your suit, if that's still ongoing.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#206

Post by FranzFerdiNaN » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:41 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #110

saurik wrote: post #8

FWIW, everyone who claims that Apple fundamentally needs the centralized ability to control apps on their platforms "for everyone's safety" -- despite how that obviously and repeatedly makes them become patsies for governments all over the world to enforce their censorship regimes -- are complicit in this stuff (in addition, of course, to the people who build it at Apple...).

Any clue how Apple is justifying this? What rules did these apps allegedly break? Is it blocked globally, or only for U.S. app store phones? Are downloads blocked, or is the app being removed from phones it's already on?

The rule it breaks is Trump doesn’t like it. So Tim Cook bends the knee as the spineless little man he is.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#207

Post by jkestner » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:42 AM UTC

toukale wrote: post #111

Why are we asking for profits companies to fight our fights? I am reading lots of comments from keyboard warriors. For profits companies are not there to fight citizens fights. You don't want this kind of stuff to happen, then people need to fight their governments and demand better and stop relying on for profits entities to do so.

That profit is an effective lever. I don’t have a lever in elections because of the electoral college.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#208

Post by clumsysmurf » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:43 AM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #73

Zak wrote: post #18

This is exactly what's wrong with Apple's app store exclusivity. It's also what's wrong with mandatory notarization where regulations forbid that, and Google's plan to require developer verification.

Websites don’t need an App Store.

Did we forget about WEI already? I'm sure Google is waiting for the right time to try it again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#209

Post by beeflet » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:45 AM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #123

zb3 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PWAs are limited in functionality By Apple, because it's Apple that a) refuses to implement advanced PWA features in WebKit and b) refuses to allow apps to use other browser engines.

So exactly which festures would be needed in a PWA that’s not currently available in iOS? It’s just a meaningless talking point without specifics

I have looked into developing a PWA. For starters:

1. Decent storage API. Last time I checked, there were serious limitations on the amount of storage you can use, especially in iOS

2. Mechanism for the user to save a certain . Analogous to saving and running a .exe and being able to compare the file hashes and run different versions of a file without the app developer's intent. This would include the ability to write and edit web apps from your device.

3. Some way of sending TCP/UDP packets directly, and doing port forwarding through UPnP.

4. Mechanism to run processes in the background, and for inter-app communication.

For example, you could not make a decent bittorrent app as a PWA. This is an example of an app which is prohibited on the app store despite having Apple having no legal basis for doing so.

I've often wondered if it would be possible to make some sort of "PWA Browser" that would give web apps hooks to some of this functionality, but it would probably get banned (There are no real rules on the app store, they can just ban you for whatever they want).

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#210

Post by FranzFerdiNaN » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 3:45 AM UTC

xvector wrote: post #47

valleyer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an Apple shareholder. My Apple shareholder interest is for Apple to preserve its reputation in the long term, including when Trump is long gone. Please stop repeating this "shareholders only care about short-term money" idea.

I'm also a shareholder and I'd say I'm pretty happy with Apple not needlessly getting involved in fights. The most important thing is not getting tariffed. Their reputation will be fine, no one but the terminally online are going to stop buying an iPhone because of this. Pretty sure most of their shareholders feel similarly.

Bending for fascism is fine as long as you get your dividend?