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React is winning by default and slowing innovation

lorenstew.art

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Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#201

Post by MiiMe19 »

scuff3d wrote: post #179
mhitza wrote: post #83

The javascript people should stop innovating for a couple of years. To much innovation that lead nowhere. How many ways can one build a web javascript project? Browser people should pick up slack and start developing sane components for the web. How about a backend-supporting combobox, or a standardized date picker across browsers? Then we wouldn't need to constantly innovate how we manage the state of those fundamen…

Frankly it's incredible what any of these frameworks have been able to accomplish given the bonkers platform they have to work on. HTML, CSS, and JS made sense back when the web was primarily text with some simple forms. It's a dog shit foundation to build highly interactive apps on. The whole thing needs to be thrown out and rebuilt.

Webapps were a mistake :(

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#202

Post by grishka »

sgarland wrote: post #192
grishka wrote: post #175

As someone still building websites mostly like it's 2010, it's funny to look at these discussions. "How do we abstract away browser APIs" — but what if you just do not ? What if you use them directly? What if you don't do client-side rendering unless absolutely necessary? The two most modern tools I use in my web stack are TypeScript and PostCSS. But these are build tools that make my life easier. At runtime, I still…

The same is true everywhere in tech, I swear. "What if we abstracted away X?" My dude, you're already operating on like five levels of abstractions, and you haven't the slightest clue how any of them work. The answer isn't another abstraction, it's learning how computers actually operate.

I once worked on a VK mini app with one guy. He was building the app itself, I did the backend. He just recently started learning web development, having never done any programming before.

So I'm ready for him to test my backend, I tell him to make a request to https://... and pass this and that parameter. And he just has no clue what I'm talking about. He somehow managed to learn React, a bit of HTML and a bit of CSS without any of the underlying basics. I had to explain him some of HTTP, the URL structure, and what an XMLHttpRequest is.

This was a revelatory experience for me.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#203

Post by throw-the-towel »

jjordan wrote: post #142
apsurd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 React DX is really great. It started really great and it got weird and bloated but it's still really great relative to the JS landscape hell. But, also yes, it's a pain in the ass and a frustrating kind of necessary evil. So there is room for improvements. Nextjs is a living hell. The ironic thing is AI makes it dramatically more tolerable to the point it's actually pretty good. But that can't be a good thing in t…

I don't really recommend isomorphic environments, but if it's your cup of tea, Tanstack Start is making a lot of progress. It removes all of the magic and misdirection of Nextjs and just provides a good light alternative.

Could you please elaborate on why you don't recommend isomorphic environments?

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#204

Post by sabellito »

gdotdesign wrote: post #19

With Mint ( https://mint-lang.com/ ) I'm trying to move away from frameworks in a language to the language being the framework — having abstractions for things which are done by packages and frameworks like components, localization, routing, etc... done in the language itself. This means that in theory the backend/runtime can be replaced (and was replaced ones from React to Preact (0.7.0 -> 0.8.0) then to use hooks a…

I remember seeing Mint quite a few years ago. I love the idea, I really like the language design, but I agree 100% with your take on the drawback. It's hard to sell that to teams.

What's surprising to me is how many alternatives exist in this space. Between elm, imba, svelte, and mint, and probably more that I don't know about, I wonder how many devs in the world are shipping to prod using them.

edit: have you thought about including Form Validation to the core lib?

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#207

Post by squidsoup »

spankalee wrote: post #157

Web components are the way out of this trap. Every single framework that isn't React should be wholeheartedly supporting web components to make sure that they have access to a viable ecosystem of components and utilities without having to bootstrap an entire competitor to React and it's ecosystem. While a lot of people view web components as competitors to frameworks, they don't really have to be. The just define an…

Curious if has anyone had much success using web components within a react UI library? When building a component library on a bespoke design system, I'm quite pleased that I can rely on a headless library like RAC to ensure that the base component implementation is accessible and works well on touch devices. I can see theoretically that web components could be a complimentary tool, but in practice I'm not certain where they're best used.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#209

Post by ern »

827a wrote: post #102

React is winning because its really good. Even if the cost is an extra few milliseconds of render time and few extra hours of dev time figuring out things like hook dependencies. If React starts taking a backseat, it'll be because its no longer really good. And, to be fair: I've started to see this happen. Next & Vercel have totally taken over the React world, and they've proven to make quite poor architectural decis…

Maybe I'm stupid, but as I recall, React hooks were quite complicated. It's been a few years since I wrote production front-end code, but it felt like some kind of high IQ/elitist barrier.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#210

Post by ChromaticPanic »

ForHackernews wrote: post #151
giveita wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe us backenders help. If I need to do front end I learn as little as possible. React does the job. It could have been Angular that ended up being in the boring throne, and I would have said just use Angular. Just use what the world uses!

Angular is so much nicer and more batteries-included than React. React somehow manages to be massively yet incomplete: add a router, add state management, add react-hook-form...

That's why it's so good. You can pick what you want instead of being told what to do.
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