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The case against social media is stronger than you think

arachnemag.substack.com

201–210 of 304 posts

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interpret this as "I expect my opinions to be heard by people who don't want to hear them". Show me the ill effects of having an opt-in, consent-based social space where it's not infiltrated by unwelcome participants?

Firstly, there is still pretty centralized moderation done through the bureaucracy of mastodon operators and federation. Similar situation in bluesky. The whole advantage of these "networks" is that they allow you to opt-in to blocklists. A federation essentially becomes a massive aggregation of blocklists, because members that do not obey the blocking policies of others will become defederated. These aren't really o…

I don't know about whoever you're referring to but I actually just want to chat with cool people (and hear about what they're up to) and don't want to see any bigoted, ignorant bullshit. It has worked out so well that I have zero interest in any other "social networking" protocol/software whatsoever. In my circles I see exactly zero control freaks, probably because I only associate/interact with people who have respect for the agency of others. I just block/mute people who violate that agency (tho I've only had to do so once or twice) and the server I'm on generally correlates with that vibe.

The "public arena of ideas" has almost nothing to offer me. If I dare to peruse something like Reddit or Twitter I am immediately aware of the overwhelming averageness of the ideas and degree of insight generally at hand. Such places are poor venues for depthful, nuanced discussion, especially about any difficult topics, especially with the outrage-bolstering "algorithms" in full force, forcing divisive content in everyone's face.

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#202
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strongest counterpoint to that is the intense chilling effect that zero anonymity would have on political dissent and discourse that doesn't match the status quo or party line. I feel that would be much more dangerous for our society than occasionally suffering the consequence of some radicalized edge cases.

In that instance, the anonymity is treating the symptom and not the root cause of the problem you fear. The actual problem is a society that does not tolerate dissent.

Some ailments (society that does not tolerate dissent) cannot be cured, but that doesn’t invalidate protection against their effects.

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#203
post #11

Part of me thinks that if the case against social media was stronger, it would not be being litigated on substack. A lot of things suck right now. Social media definitely give us the ability to see that. Using your personal ideology to link correlations is not the same thing as finding causation. There will be undoubtedly be some damaging aspects of social media, simply because it is large and complex. It would be hi…

> Part of me thinks that if the case against social media was stronger, it would not be being litigated on substack. It's litigated all over and has been for a decade. Australia for example has set an age limit of 16 to have social media. France 15. Schools or countries are trying various phone bans. There's research into it. There are whistleblowers telling about Facebook's own research they've suppressed as it woul…

> set an age limit of 16 to have social media

This just shows how futile it is. How do you actually stop someone from using social media? If a 15 year old signs up for Mastodon what is Australia going to do about it?

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#204
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's increasingly discussed in traditional media too so let's toss out that first line glib dismissal. More and more people declaring it's net-negative is the first step towards changing anything. Academic "let's evaluate each individual point about it on its own merits" is not how this sort of thing finds political momentum. (Or we could argue that "social media" in the Facebook-era sense is just one part of a large…

I did not consider it a glib dismissal, and I would not consider traditional media an appropriate avenue to litigate this either. Trial by media is a term used to describe something that generally think shouldn't occur. The appropriate place to find out what is and isn't true is research. Do research, write papers, discuss results, resolve contradictions in findings, reach consensus. The media should not be deciding…

There's plenty of research. Plenty. None of it is positive.

Summaries with links here. https://socialmediavictims.org/effects-of-social-media/

It's really not hard to confirm this.

The problem isn't that "building political momentum is more important than accuracy", it's that social media is a huge global industry that pumps out psychological, emotional, and political pollution.

And like all major polluters, it has a very strong interest in denying what it's doing.

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#205
I used to spend 4+ hours a day glued to Facebook. Last November I hit a tipping point and quit social media altogether:

Facebook: deactivated Twitter: deleted my account altogether LinkedIn: removed the app—now I only post and check messages via desktop with a news-feed eradicator Google + Chrome + Youtube on mobile: deleted. now I just use Safari in incognito mode.

Once the apps were no longer at my fingertips, quitting was surprisingly easy. I don’t miss them at all and I’m enjoying life much more.

As for HN, I browse only sporadically—and it’s never felt addictive to me anyway.

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#206

The last week has taken me from “I believe in the freedom of online anonymity” to “Online anonymity possess a weight that a moral, civil society cannot bear.” I do not believe humans are capable of responsibly wielding the power to anonymously connect with millions of people without the real weight of social consequence.

And this is how we get things like TSA and Patriot Act. "I was totally in favor of freedom, until one bad thing happened, and now I think freedom should never have existed in the first place!"

I tend to agree, especially because the most harming political influencers are NOT (pseudo-)anonymous. But... it's not just a "bad thing" that is happening. It is the foundational destruction of free societies as we know them. Debates and democratic discourse are replaced with hate, oppression and violence.

I believe that social dynamics like shame and consequences are disabled by pseudo-anonymzation. Pretty much the same effect as people becoming more aggressive and vocal in the confines of their cars. You'd never flip off random people in a supermarket as some would do for getting cut off in traffic.

This substack posts a few interesting theories and ideas how that comes to be. However, the most concerning to me is the asymmetric impact of emotional manipulation due to social media enabled network dynamics.

In particular:

> Online discussions are dominated by a surprisingly small, extremely vocal, and non-representative minority. Research on social media has found that, while only 3% of active accounts are toxic, they produce 33% of all content. Furthermore, 74% of all online conflicts are started in just 1% of communities, and 0.1% of users shared 80% of fake news. Not only does this extreme minority stir discontent, spread misinformation, and spark outrage online, they also bias the meta-perceptions of most users who passively “lurk” online.

The brain responds to alarmist, negative and distressing information with much higher priority. At the same time, very few radical and extreme influencers can utilize this mechanism, amplified by social media trying to boost ad revenue. Counterfactual information which directly appeals to the biases and psychology of users is posted and wrapped into click-baity designs to maximize attention and revenue. Tribes are forming and very few elite users can steer the information consumption of users - not just what but also how.

This is highly damaging to society and there is no more institutional trust anywhere to retrieve reliable information on which discussions can be based. Everyone selectively chooses their "reliable sources". This is the absolute opposite of how PKI works, it's like everyone just picks the Root Certs they like (for us techies).

This is of course ironic because all studies and knowledge humanity has to offer are a single search prompt away. But it simply doesn't matter if institutional trust is gone and studies are dismissed because they are coming from "woke" or "radical right wing" sources - completely obliterating what we are trying to achieve with peer review and so on.

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#207
post #174

I often wonder when I see articles like this if HN counts as social media. And then, the continuous re-discovery or the ails of social media on social media is a trip, in itself.

Technically, yes, but at least it's not filter bubbling everyone.

There is a "karma" score. You know yours and you've checked the scores of others.

This is social media. It's a fairly benign manifestation of it, I suppose, but it's social media nonetheless.

Something to consider while carefully crafting denigrations of what we all think is meant when discussing "social media." Especially if you'd rather not see HN and similar places damaged by righteous politicians.

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of me thinks that if the case against social media was stronger, it would not be being litigated on substack. It's litigated all over and has been for a decade. Australia for example has set an age limit of 16 to have social media. France 15. Schools or countries are trying various phone bans. There's research into it. There are whistleblowers telling about Facebook's own research they've suppressed as it woul…

> set an age limit of 16 to have social media This just shows how futile it is. How do you actually stop someone from using social media? If a 15 year old signs up for Mastodon what is Australia going to do about it?

I'm guessing it's mostly useful as a guide for parents, but I haven't seen any hard data

It shows it's not just a debate on substack though

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#209

The last week has taken me from “I believe in the freedom of online anonymity” to “Online anonymity possess a weight that a moral, civil society cannot bear.” I do not believe humans are capable of responsibly wielding the power to anonymously connect with millions of people without the real weight of social consequence.

I'm making 2 assumptions here: that you're American and that you're referring to the recent assassination. What I find odd is that American history is packed with assassinations and domestic terrorism and yet it is this recent event that has affected your thinking. In your own parlance, what gives?

Re: The case against social media is stronger than you think

#210

I used to spend 4+ hours a day glued to Facebook. Last November I hit a tipping point and quit social media altogether: Facebook: deactivated Twitter: deleted my account altogether LinkedIn: removed the app—now I only post and check messages via desktop with a news-feed eradicator Google + Chrome + Youtube on mobile: deleted. now I just use Safari in incognito mode. Once the apps were no longer at my fingertips, quit…

A tip is to also have Leechblock on Firefox mobile such that you can't easily cheat.

I realized I had this muscle memory vising some detrimental sites in a loop so I blocked them.

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