996 • Hacker News Board

Re: 996

#201

Post by rvba » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:05 PM UTC

CuriouslyC wrote: post #137

I'm currently running 10,2,7 because I'm on fire and need to get the things in my head out into the world, but the idea that I would expect anyone I was working with to pull that kind of weight is just insanity. I sit down and the day flies by as I build foundational software, but that's my passion, my quest. I would only expect that sort of intensity from a collaborator asking for a 50/50 split.

If you are "working" thrn why are you on HN?

On a side note, there are orgs where everything is done so poorly due to meetings - with no results nor impact. In such cases it is 8 hours of meetings and 4 hours of actual work

Re: 996

#202

Post by NaomiLehman » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:05 PM UTC

jackienotchan wrote: post #123

The first two quotes are from founders of: - BrowserUse - Founded 2024 - Greptile - Founded 2023 The third quote is from a VC who has never founded a startup himself and has a clear interest in pushing founders to trade work-life balance for his own quick returns. So none of these people worked on anything longer than 2 years. I wonder what will happen if we check back in 5–10 years. Will they still be doing and prom…

It's comical that the browser use guy tweeted "crazy salaries, 996" and the highest salary they offer is $320k. In SF.

Re: 996

#203

Post by rvba » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:06 PM UTC

kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #119

j_bum wrote: post #5

When I was getting my Ph.D., my advisor jokingly told me that his lab has three 8 hour shifts per day, and I could pick two to work. This was never literally practiced. But excessive hours were the norm. And I loved it. It helped me launch into a successful career. But it hurt my relationship with my partner (now wife), and it burned me out. I miss those days, but I don’t miss what they did to my health.

As someone graduating from undergrad soon, and a intense and passionate person in CS, all of these reasons are seriously making me reconsider the idea of doing a PhD. I've done the 36-hour straight work grinds, and working from 10 pm to 6 am for multiple days a week. However, I'm tired of doing that, and I've experienced enough burnout already. I'm also not okay with doing highly skilled work for more than 40 hours a…

What are the results of those 36 hour grinds?

Re: 996

#204

Post by Rubio78 » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:06 PM UTC

Companies that promote the "996" culture (working from 9 am to 9 pm, 6 days a week) are a major red flag for any employee. This model might only be justifiable for a founder with a huge equity stake, never for an average employee without extraordinary compensation. Furthermore, these extended hours don't usually translate into greater real productivity.

This debate is part of a critical redefinition of work. Technology has increased productivity, but wages have stagnated, breaking the social contract. As in the past with labor laws, urgent change is needed to avoid a crisis, prioritizing a quality life and a legacy to be proud of, not senseless exploitation.

Re: 996

#205

Post by graemep » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:07 PM UTC

whstl wrote: post #177

996 is just theater for investors. Saw this happening even at YC companies. There was always that stupid expectation of overworking, staying until 9. The reality is that people twiddle thumbs. And the disorganization and micromanagement power plays are enough to negate any additional worked hour. This ranges from pure disorganization in terms of what to build to having 3 hour meetings with the whole fucking company w…

> 996 is just theater for investors.

Investors who have not heard of the research into productivity that says long hours have no significant benefit for skilled work? Who have not heard of diminishing returns? Who have no experience of the reality of working long hours themselves?

Re: 996

#206

Post by varispeed » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:10 PM UTC

The thing about 996 that people don’t like to say out loud: it’s just slavery in startup-scented wrapping paper. No whips, no overseer with a shotgun - but the logic is the same. If you don’t belong to the owning class, your “choice” is simply which master you want to burn yourself out for.

People defend it by saying “well, you can always leave.” True - in the same way a sharecropper could always leave one plantation for another. The ladders are pulled higher and higher, so the fantasy of becoming your own master is almost gone. Once capital realises you have no escape, it’s not even 996 anymore, it’s 007. And if you want to eat, you’ll comply.

Of course people will say: “But it’s just about intensity and output, not hours!” Exactly - and that’s the trap. That framing makes you think you’re optimising for craft, while what you’re actually optimising is obedience. You’ll argue about hours vs output forever, but the real divide is class: founder vs employee, owner vs owned.

If you’re a founder working 996 on your own company, that’s your gamble, your risk, your upside. Go for it. But glorifying 996 as a model for employees is essentially advocating wage slavery with a hip new logo.

Re: 996

#207

Post by petermcneeley » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:10 PM UTC

jeremyjh wrote: post #178

petermcneeley wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you get hot and tired, you'll stop No? This is basically the philosophy of the "last man" Many great things require overcoming the weakness of the flesh. From the moment you understand the weakness of your flesh it should disgust you.

So you are saying you’ve worked in your garden for 12 hours a day? Multiple days in a row?

Jokes aside yes people work very hard on things, even for years, if they believe in them. From dawn to dusk; of their own free will.

Work being bad is simply a slave mentality. It is because the slave does not get any return on their effort; only sustenance.

Re: 996

#208

Post by numpad0 » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:10 PM UTC

WiSaGaN wrote: post #26

grantdong wrote: post #18

In China, its birthplace, '996' always seen as practice of failed management. Because for at least half of the 72-hour workweek, most employee will mentally checkout (in Chinese we call this 摸鱼). Although middle managers know their subordinates are inefficient, they still impose working hour KPI on their team, so they can demonstrate their own value to upper management.

China is not the birthplace of so called '996'. Long before tech scene in China, there are a lot of investment banks doing that in HK especially for junior analysts. Calling 996 a China thing is just orientlalism. Everything bad is Chinese, everything good is western.

There is probably little to nothing specifically Chinese about workaholism as a concept, but the word is definitely Chinese(as in language). Dialect continuum for East Asian languages are contained within borders, or in other words, each of the languages expanded and dominated to the full extents of continuum and hit with stagnation at major geographical features before entering the modern era.

Re: 996

#209

Post by bad_username » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

hedora wrote: post #145

All the engineers that I’ve worked with that were doing 12 hour x 6 days ended up being drags on the rest of the team. Their 2am fever dream garbage would hit prod, and then it’d take a full time support person to apologize to customers while two full time engineers wasted a week refactoring production into something that worked. Anyway, I’ve noticed I can only work 6 hours if I write code myself, but can easily hit…

10-4 is great because it removes fragmentation. It gives you one full, non-fragmented fresh day of life, rather than low-energy little bits in the evenings. It's way easier to do something meaningful with the day than with the bits.

To me this fragmentation removal also privided a surprising converse effect: for the 4 days I could think about work uninterrupted and guilt-free which put me in a state of sustained multi-day focus that provided tangible boost to the quality of my results.

For sure it's impossible to do concentrated work for 10 hours straight, but a typical job isn't only concentrated work. Onve you learn what your energy levels are through the day, and manage your workload accordingly and have discipline , it is perfectly possible to have sudtainable full-output 10 hour workdays.

Not for everyone, but definitely beneficial for those who know how to use it.

Re: 996

#210

Post by wombat-man » Sat, Sep 06, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

whstl wrote: post #193

scubbo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and take all the upside And all of the risk. Encouraging anyone to start their own company is deeply irresponsible. Most startups fail. If you're needing encouragement to do it - if you're not already fully deluded that you're the special snowflake unique genius who will succeed where all others have failed - you shouldn't be doing it.

First: regular employees are already taking the risk of being jobless some time in the future when joining startups. Second: there is no CEO in tech taking a smaller salary than their employees.

Well, sure, if you can raise capital then go for it. But if I'm burning savings trying to bootstrap that is just riskier than enjoying a salary with some risk of job loss.