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Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

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Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#201

Post by autoexec »

PeterStuer wrote: post #185
teekert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

Because the baseband chipset protocols and drivers are extremely patent encumbered. Any FOSS project will have to rely on on proprietary blobs for this part, and licensing deals from the existing patent holders, Quallcom. Nokia, Ericsson etc. . You can see this is sort of adverserial to the FOSS way of doing things.

The licensing should (in theory) have FRAND terms and so might not be impossible. Couldn't someone just create their own chips? In the worst case, could someone be able to come up with a new protocol and start a new network (assuming they had the money?)

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#202

Post by charcircuit »

m4rtink wrote: post #101
charcircuit wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my point is throwing out all of AOSP because of that is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Whatever other FOSS OS someone comes up with won't have Google Play Services built in either.

Isn't AOSP developed behind closed doors, with infrequent code drops & zero community participation ? Good luck building anything on top of that & keeping it in sync long term.

AOSP has yearly releases for the new major versions, but you can contribute code upstream.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#203

Post by autoexec »

nine_k wrote: post #133
teekert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

> Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. This is not too hard. What is hard is to trust it enough. A FOSS OS, by definition, allows to install whatever software, and allows for modification of itself. It is built to overcome limitations, not impose them. In this regard, it's a perfect tool for a criminal who wants to circumvent security measures, because these are limitations. It's the same problem as with ch…

> They choose iOS because it's locked down and thus they cannot inadvertently do something they don't understand, and can't be bothered to learn. More importantly, their grandmother cannot do something she doesn't understand but scammers persuade her to do.

For what it's worth scammers have zero problems scamming grandmothers with Apple computers and iphones.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#204

Post by okasaki »

numpad0 wrote: post #183
teekert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

Because PC is an American thing but phones are not. Obsession for standardization, modularity, and cross-compatibility are rather unique American cultural traits that aren't nearly as strongly manifesting elsewhere. "Fits right in" is quintessentially American thing. The entire unitized jet engines on Boeing aircraft drops right off and swaps right into another host, sometimes even to different types of aircraft. PCI…

Nothing says "obsession with standardization" like being one of only three countries on Earth that can't figure out that water freezes at 0 and boils at 100.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#205

Post by autoexec »

recursivecaveat wrote: post #57
raverbashing wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman's fallacy is thinking every system is perfect and unbreakable and that people have a perfect understanding of software and systems (for better or for worse) People will be running pirated debugger copies if that comes to shove 99.9% of people DNGAF about OSS. They do care about doing what they need on their phone without malware/bloatware/nagware Also publishing and development are separate activities

I wouldn't bet on hackers saving us from everything. There are 150 million Nintendo Switches in the world, and nobody has figured out how to jailbreak one without getting into the hardware and shorting some wires (and even then only on early unpatched models). I don't think its out of the realm of possibility to make a best-selling phone that stays uncrackable for the general population for its entire lifecycle.

> There are 150 million Nintendo Switches in the world, and nobody has figured out how to jailbreak one without getting into the hardware and shorting some wires (and even then only on early unpatched models).

It's is acceptable for the hack to be difficult so long as it exists. I'm sure later models will eventually be jailbroken too. In the meantime, all of nintendo's best efforts haven't ended the piracy of switch games which is what the vast majority of people care about, not getting their favorite linux distro to run on the hardware itself.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#206

Post by n4r9 »

BrenBarn wrote: post #58

Those questions may make some users uncomfortable, but it's wishful thinking to believe they would make Google uncomfortable. Google doesn't care in the slightest about these issues.

Agreed. PR departments are paid specifically to weasel around questions like this. If anything, it's in Google's interests because it gives them something to claim they're cooperating with.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#207

Post by jemmyw »

numpad0 wrote: post #183
teekert wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so complex to have a foss mobile OS. I only have Linux PCs (laptops) and servers, 100% of my work and personal stuff is done there (though for work I do need to hop into MS365, Google Workspace, Zoom, etc, hooray for browsers, my final firewall between me and the walled gardens, though we can have a whole discussion on that). For mobile, we have PostmarketOS, Phosh, Ubuntu Touch. I really must try living in…

Because PC is an American thing but phones are not. Obsession for standardization, modularity, and cross-compatibility are rather unique American cultural traits that aren't nearly as strongly manifesting elsewhere. "Fits right in" is quintessentially American thing. The entire unitized jet engines on Boeing aircraft drops right off and swaps right into another host, sometimes even to different types of aircraft. PCI…

> Because PC is an American thing but phones are not.

I don't really understand what you're talking about here. Android and iOS are American companies. American culture is John Deere locking down their equipment. Anti-consumer laws, pushing IP laws onto the rest of the world by treaty, being overly litigious, these are all American culture. I think the culture you're thinking of is nearly dead in a shell of corporatism.

The PC was a pretty unique event due to a confluence of historical factors that all came together in a certain way. It wasn't the way of things before, and it's been slowly moving away from how it was, and it's not really got anything to do with being American or not.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#208

Post by pjmlp »

microtonal wrote: post #136
pjmlp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been attempted multiple times, and always fails because followoing FOSS to the letter doesn't play with how hardware industry works, and when people aren't willing to make concensions they cannot ever deliver a product the general public would replace their Android/iOS phones with.

GrapheneOS and SailfishOS focus on a narrow set of devices and they can keep up with hardware support. I agree that you have to make concessions in terms of allowing proprietary firmware blobs and opaque baseband hardware. You also have to choose your hardware wisely (e.g. GrapheneOS can/could piggyback on Google's driver work). I was just saying that you can make the problem more narrow by not trying to support ever…

Yeah, the fragmentation is the main issue, however Firefox OS is a proof that even a single device doesn't work if there are no concessions, and the only thing left are unintesting hardware for the general public.

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#209

Post by notpushkin »

subscribed wrote: post #184
aspenmayer wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately no NFC Payments though, since they are only available for Google Wallet (which uses safetynet) A workaround for NFC payments I've heard about for folks running OSes on their Androids that don't support that feature is a smartwatch with NFC.

Precisely. Google pixel, Garmin watches, even Samsung watches. Or using a bank that supports NFC payments (not using Google Wallet). GrapheneOS Foundation raised this practice with European Commission because it unfairly penalises secure and safe competition giving instead a lie to the developers and banks that ancient, unsafe, vulnerable platforms are more secure.

Fidesmo Pay is another option, though the bank support is limited: https://fidesmo.com/consumer/fidesmo-pay/

Basically it’s a passive variant of smartwatch payments: you can pay with a ring, or bracelet, or a mechanical watch. The cheapest option is this plastic thingy (currently out of stock): https://eu.k-pay.com/product/mavericks

I’m thinking about implanting one into my hand :^)

Re: Uncomfortable Questions About Android Developer Verification

#210

Post by loloquwowndueo »

spaqin wrote: post #187
maximilianthe1 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bonus/loyalty programm

More likely getting data on your usage in some part, or most likely, pushing notifications reminding you about the particular brand, so you'll keep spending the money there.

Then the app gets no notification permissions.

Also why does a gas station app need to send notifications? :)

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