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FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

docs.fcc.gov

201–210 of 281 posts

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#201
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use call screening with Google Fi. I recently added my number to the FCC block list, and they made some recent changes, so it's gotten a lot better. I did ask if I could just send all calls not in my contact list to get screened, and that idea seemed to "blow their mind," though.

You mean the donotcall.gov database? What changes have they made?

When they are screening a call, if I push the button to answer the call, the call comes to me immediately.

They used to play back a 10 to 20 second "polite" message that just annoyed everybody.

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#202
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one discover which VOIP providers are the source of calls?

I wrote a little tool which can do lookups: https://github.com/evidlo/nanpa_lookup There's no free source of this information anywhere. The only affordable option is telcodata.us

Did you get the data in the db from telcodata.us?

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#203
post #179

The PSTN is simply not sustainable. It’s a relic of a time when there was no practical way to authenticate or validate calls. Today, with malicious actors able to dial in from anywhere in the world at negligible cost, the system is fundamentally unequipped to handle the abuse it faces. Efforts like STIR/SHAKEN exist, but they’re little more than a band-aid—and not a particularly effective one—because the underlying n…

This is a corollary to Chesterton’s fence. unsignedint’s public good. If you can’t explain the benefit then you can’t tear it down. The PSTN guarantees that all telco operators interoperate. Without it you get what happened with instant messaging. AKA walled gardens. You take for granted the ability to call an iPhone with an Android. The FCC is responsible for maintaining trust, which they have done here. They can in…

I think Chesterton’s fence is a fair analogy—but it only works if the “fence” still serves a protective function. With the PSTN, the fence is riddled with holes, and the people meant to maintain it can’t keep up with the erosion. Interoperability was indeed its greatest strength, but today that same universality is what lets malicious actors reach everyone at trivial cost.

Comparing PSTN to instant messaging walled gardens is interesting, but I’d argue the real parallel is email: a federated, open standard that also suffers from spam and abuse, yet still manages to limp along thanks to heavy filtering and layered trust systems. The PSTN never evolved those trust layers; instead, it relied on scarcity (call cost, geographic constraints) to keep abuse in check. Once those costs collapsed, the trust model collapsed with them.

As for the FCC, sure, they can try to incentivize carriers. But the fact that we need constant regulatory intervention just to keep basic trust afloat suggests the system is no longer structurally sound. Band-aids like STIR/SHAKEN prove the point: we’re bolting authentication onto a protocol that never envisioned it. That might extend its life a little, but it doesn’t make the foundation any less fragile.

So the question isn’t whether the PSTN once had value (it did, massively), but whether preserving it now delivers more value than the cost of propping it up. If a good chunk of people already treat unknown calls as spam until proven otherwise, then the social contract around the PSTN has already been broken.

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, upcoming iOS 26 has a new screening feature. The idea is that calls from numbers you don't have a connection with will be asked to briefly identify themselves and why they're calling. It'll show you this text and give you the choice to block/send-to-voicemail/ignore/accept.

> upcoming iOS 26 has a new screening feature I had this on my old Pixel. The result was that people generally hung up and didn't leave a message. Apple is a little bit better with marketing and hopefully won't make the same dumb move of making it a "pro only feature" so maybe it'll be different this time around...

> The result was that people generally hung up and didn't leave a message.

This sounds perfect to me. Not only do I not have to talk to spammers, I don't even need to listen to their messages.

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#206
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can someone from outside the US make my phone ring? Why can't I opt out of calls sourced internationally? Seems like an easy way to fix the problem. There is no reason for anyone overseas to call me, and if someone US-based does phone spamming, we can prosecute them.

Why can someone from outside the US make my phone ring? There are applications to block international calls but that only helps if the number is not spoofed. People that have SS7 lines into the telco system can spoof as just about any number. I wanted to kill those circuits but my employer at the time said, "they are paying their bills, arent they?" . This was in the 90's. I guess the laws are every so slowly startin…

Also, VoIP goes over the Internet and the Internet is international.

Country codes stopped being indicative of location the moment we removed the wires from our telephones.

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#207
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The text message should explain the nature of the call and which number to call in reply. That’s basically how most SMS scams work.

Are phone calls less scammy?

It seems strange to me that the solution would be “mimic SMS scams”.

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#208
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a corollary to Chesterton’s fence. unsignedint’s public good. If you can’t explain the benefit then you can’t tear it down. The PSTN guarantees that all telco operators interoperate. Without it you get what happened with instant messaging. AKA walled gardens. You take for granted the ability to call an iPhone with an Android. The FCC is responsible for maintaining trust, which they have done here. They can in…

I think Chesterton’s fence is a fair analogy—but it only works if the “fence” still serves a protective function. With the PSTN, the fence is riddled with holes, and the people meant to maintain it can’t keep up with the erosion. Interoperability was indeed its greatest strength, but today that same universality is what lets malicious actors reach everyone at trivial cost. Comparing PSTN to instant messaging walled g…

> Comparing PSTN to instant messaging walled gardens is interesting, but I’d argue the real parallel is email: a federated, open standard that also suffers from spam and abuse, yet still manages to limp along thanks to heavy filtering and layered trust systems.

I think you're absolutely right to draw that parallel. But, today's email landscape isn't much of a federated open standard. It's a web of trust and distrust, filters, and deliverability issues. It's real work to maintain an email server and attain high deliverability with other email services. So much so that most don't even do it anymore. Most email is just delivered by a few large providers.

Really, email is suffering from a lot of the same issues that PSTN also suffers from. But email providers just decided to "solve" the problem themselves, mostly by taking a heavy hand at blocking things and deciding they don't really care if you're not a big provider.

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#209
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! Easy to forget that just because "we" don't fall for them, they're still incredibly harmful to our seniors and other vulnerable populations. Also hate the scam "work from home for $125,000 per year" texts. They really prey on the desperate.

Exactly. My city started posting about online safety and warnings about various scams. Unfortunately, almost every one of them also mentions how a local resident was victimized. We have a fairly large senior population. It's easy to say it's idiots who fall for this stuff when we're young enough to have grown up in this world or started using new technology at an early age. We will be the ones targeted someday and it…

Apple makes it extremely easy to fall prey to email scams. They absolutely refuse to show an email address in less than 3 taps. There’s no setting in Mail to always show the address and they trust all senders to give an honest name. So if a contact loses their contact list scammers can send a known name with a junk address and you won’t see it unless you go out of your way.

Apple makes a lot of dumb user-hostile decisions but this one is particularly egregious and has caught me off guard.

Re: FCC bars providers for non-compliance with robocall protections

#210

At this point I'm firmly of the opinion that "leak this 10 digit code and anyone on the planet can call me relentlessly" is just a broken model. Maybe that worked better when the calls carried a significant cost, but clearly the scammers are able to do this sort of thing at scale. In practice of course, my phone is 100% permanently in "do not disturb" mode and does not ring at all unless I've added you to my contact…

Yup. I didn’t realize how bad it got until my father stopped answering calls. It turned out he was getting (no hyperbole) 90 calls a day from spammers and vendors he had no relationship with. I used the iOS filter, the AT&T filter, and turned on the shortcut so the phone doesn’t ring unless the caller is in his contacts. The problem is that it already changed his behavior. He doesn’t answer the phone anymore, even if…

Can you share those countermeasures you mentioned? I haven’t been able to find anything for the iPhone.
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