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Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

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Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#201

Post by packetlost »

markasoftware wrote: post #197
packetlost wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever used speedtest.net, you've almost certainly been using benchmarking against a server in your own city, or at least as close as your ISPs routing will allow. Ookla servers are often specifically optimized for and sometimes hosted/owned by ISPs to give the best possible speeds. Google's DNS servers use anycast magic to get similar results. Basically no service you actually use outside of very, very large…

if I'm able to ping 8.8.8.8 in 10ms, doesn't that mean that my rtt latency to get out of the docsis-part of the network is 10ms, and that any latency beyond that will be the same regardless of docsis/fiber?

Yes, the majority of that latency is likely coming from DOCSIS. You're likely in a major city, large enough that Google has an anycast DNS server nearby.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#202

Post by foldr »

jitl wrote: post #199
foldr wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s difficult to ensure that it’s always the same logic when client and server software versions can get out of sync. You can try to force the client to reload whenever the server redeploys, but realistically you’ll probably end up dealing with cases where the client and server logic diverge.

i mean that's life with client computers, you make stuff backwards compatible and you avoid making it too brittle.

It's not an insurmountable problem, but it's a problem that you don't have if you execute your business logic only on the server.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#203

Post by rokob »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #126
virgil_disgr4ce wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI performance is "a weird thing to index on"?

Yes? If that's the primary selling point for a project manager versus being just a really damn good project manager with good visibility? I've never used a project manager and thought to myself "I want to switch because this is too slow". Even Jira. But I have thought to myself "It's too difficult to build a good workflow with this tool" or "It's too much work to surface good visibility". This is not a first-person s…

Yeah but Jira is a good example of where the culture building the software shows they don’t give a shit about performance or usability. They tend to go together. I agree the talk about Linear being good because it is fast is weird but I think a lot of people who say that are actually saying the workflows are sensible and the ux is good. The feeling of speed is partially because you don’t have to click 17 times to do something simple.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#204

Post by kobieps »

CodingJeebus wrote: post #172
mentalgear wrote: post #27

Local-First & Sync-Engines are the future. Here's a great filterable datatable overview of the local-first framework landscape: https://www.localfirst.fm/landscape My favorite so far is Triplit.dev (which can also be combined with TanStack DB); 2 more I like to explore are PowerSync and NextGraph. Also, the recent LocalFirst Conf has some great videos, currently watching the NextGraph one ( https://www.youtube.com/wa…

How is the database migration support for these tools? Needing to support clients that don’t phone home for an extended period and therefore need to be rolled forward from a really old schema state seems like a major hassle, but maybe I’m missing something. Trying to troubleshoot one-off front end bugs for a single product user can be real a pain, I’d hate to see what it’s like when you have to factor in the state of…

I can't speak to the other tools, but we built PowerSync using a schemaless protocol under the hood, specifically for this reason. Most of the time you don't need to implement migrations at all. For example adding a new column just works, as the data is already there when the schema is rolled forward.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#205

Post by SJC_Hacker »

JusticeJuice wrote: post #177

I remember being literally 12 when google docs was launched, which featured real-time sync, and a collaborative cursor. I remember thinking that this is how all web experience will be in the future, at the time 'cloud computing' was the buzzword - I (incorrectly) thought realtime collaboration was the very definition of cloud computing. And then it just... never happened. 20 years went by, and most web products are s…

Real-time collaboration ? Discord (not fundamentally different than IRC, which has been around since the 90s), Zoom (or any other teleconferencing software)

This site being a CRUD app is a feature. Sometimes simplicity is best. I wouldn't want realtime updates, too distracting.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#206

Post by _aobj »

Check out "Distributed Quantum Computing across an optical network link" by D.Main. Et Al. 2024. As it seems that the goals of Linear, are closely aligned with distributed Quantum Computing. Having decided I need a distributed Website with quantum entanglement. For my Web shop to sell "Federation Crypto currency" I find this post very instructive, towards that goal. " It is possible to use so little javascript and css that it makes more sense to inline it. SSR enables this " Does this imply compile time goals of browser are potentially compatible with a Distributed Quantum Computing Website? a local-first approach

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#208

Post by vlasky »

dustingetz wrote: post #60
mentalgear wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meteor was amazing, I don't understand why it never got sustainable traction.

non-relational, document oriented pubsub architecture based on MongoDB, good for not much more than chat apps. For toy apps (in 2012-2016) – use firebase (also for chat apps), for crud-spectrum and enterprise apps - use sql. And then React happened and consumed the entire spectrum of frontend architectures, bringing us to GraphQL, which didn't, but the hype wave left little oxygen remaining for anything else. (Even i…

I'm the defacto maintainer of the Meteor MySQL integration. Since 2015, I've been involved in the design and maintenance of six different Meteor webapps for real-time geospatial applications built for B2B and B2C.

Given this, I reject your assertion that Meteor is limited to MongoDB and "toy apps".

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#209

Post by 0xblinq »

mbaranturkmen wrote: post #15

How is this approach better than using react-query to persist storage which periodically sync the local storage and the server storage? Perhaps I am missing something.

Yes, you’re missing a lot of things. Like how to update that data when you are offline and have everything sync around when others have made updates to the same data in the meanwhile. Among many other concerns and use cases.

Re: Linear sent me down a local-first rabbit hole

#210

Post by zwnow »

zem wrote: post #159
zwnow wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web applications have become too big and heavy. Corps want to control everything. A simple example would be a simple note taking app which apparently also has to sync throughout devices. They are going to store every note you take on their servers, who knows if they really delete your deleted notes. They'll also track how often you visited your notes for whatever reasons. Wouldn't surprise me if the app also required…

> a simple note taking app which apparently also has to sync throughout devices that is the entire point of the app, surely! whether or not the actual implementation is bad, syncing across devices is what users want in a note taking app for the most part.

I only take notes on one device, if I can take them on my phone I can pull out my phone and look at them while using other devices
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