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The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

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Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#201
post #195
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused now: is now the EU the baddie or the governments? Because these are two different entities - and not at least, also "the EU" is a group of government representatives. So folks if you're in the EU and don't like something the EU does - you do have levers, go vote, campaign, do something to move your own folks to do something on the EU level. And if you're in the US maybe better check your own backyard, I…

Unfortunately the EU is far from democratic. The people making these decisions are allowed to be anonymous as well.

Not quite, the people making these decisions are all in EU commission and they are there because they were submitted by their national parties. Also there is the EU parliament that contains people that also belong to national parties.

If they look like they support a very unpopular decision a big public backlash can definitely make them reconsider. Depending on how secure they are in the national politics.

For example why do you think Denmark is submitting this now? Because the somewhat right wing gov in Poland that vetoed it last time is no longer in power. Instead Mr Europe (Tusk) is the prime minister. If EU beurocracy was embodied in a person it would be him. He was the president of the commission. He was the vice-leader of the EU People's Party - the biggest party in the EU parliament. He had his first political party funded by German SPD in cash... He also lost last parliamentary election in Poland, but still came out on top by making a coalition with three smaller parties (some say one was made exactly for that purpose few years ago). He will for sure do everything in his power to have this passed.

But his government is a minority one, and at least two of these three coalition parties are mainly supported by young people from large cities. And those were the people that undermined it last time by demonstrating (believe it or not the previous mildly right wing gov was not entirely opposed to having more control over people, but they had to quickly change their mind and veto it after mass demonstrations). So I'm hoping there is no chance in hell it'll pass.

Also, if it did, there is no chance it will be signed into the law by the current president or not be deemed unconstitutional by the constitutional Court... The EU and Tusk have claimed the court is "illegitimate" for years, but that is a long story. So in short, pushing this issue despite strong opposition definitely has a potential to blow up Polish politics. No PM leading a minority gov would do something like this intentionally while his party is loosing popular support every month.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#202
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd stop the ad-hominems and suggestions of malice you'd more effectively make your case. I'm not going to play this game of me investing my time in random links posted to this discussion, but as a once time exception: - The first link claims a man got detained where ICE thought he had a fake ID but where he was actually a citizen. From the article: "It is not clear where the construction is located and efforts…

Regarding the first point, you are leaning heavily on euphemisms ("detained") to make your case. Regarding the second point, you purposefully picked the least offensive part (the mosquitoes, as opposed to the starvation, the sleep deprivation, the quarters tigher than in concentration camps), to misrepresent what is happening here. It is exactly behavioral patterns like these that make it hard to assume good faith ar…

This will be my last reply in this thread. We're not going to agree and you keep implying bad faith. I'll reply to one last factual point, and forgo replying to the continued implication of bad faith.

> Regarding the first point, you are leaning heavily on euphemisms ("detained") to make your case.

No, "detained" is a precise legal term that is used in the article in the intended legal way. It's a step prior to arrest, where an officer has stopped you for some probably cause. When detained, you are not allowed to leave, while the officer checks what's going on. The result can be that you are free to go, or that things escalate to an arrest (you are taken in custody).

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#203
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding the first point, you are leaning heavily on euphemisms ("detained") to make your case. Regarding the second point, you purposefully picked the least offensive part (the mosquitoes, as opposed to the starvation, the sleep deprivation, the quarters tigher than in concentration camps), to misrepresent what is happening here. It is exactly behavioral patterns like these that make it hard to assume good faith ar…

This will be my last reply in this thread. We're not going to agree and you keep implying bad faith. I'll reply to one last factual point, and forgo replying to the continued implication of bad faith. > Regarding the first point, you are leaning heavily on euphemisms ("detained") to make your case. No, "detained" is a precise legal term that is used in the article in the intended legal way. It's a step prior to arres…

"Detained" is also the term the Nazis used for people they put into concentration camps.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#204
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partly. But it isn't necessarily Xenophobia. Those who have different cultures happen to be typically immigrants, but not always. e.g. In Northern Ireland (and parts of Scotland) there were clashes between Protestants and Catholics. I used to see them all the time on the news when I was a kid. There are two distinct groups (both Christian) that have not co-existed very well historically. I don't know if you would cal…

Sure. That's a very generous interpretation. But I am quite certain OP does not mean "priviliged white dudes" as the issue with "multiculturalism". May OP can expand on what they mean exactly.

This is exactly the point that specific things cannot reasonably be discussed without a certain side screaming about "xenophobia".

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#205
I've believed for a long time that if they want to do this shit, they should do it first on the civil servants, politicians included. They, their spouses and their kids. For a timespan of 5 years.

And allow any citizen to try to hack their 100% secure backdoors without any fear of consequences.

It after 5 years everything is OK, that is, no data has been leaked, no information access abuse has occurred, the test group has not been affected psychologically in a negative way by this potential surveillance, they should present the results, including how many criminals and deranged people have been caught and imprisoned through the direct help of this technology.

Then set it up for a direct vote by the people.

Else they should just fuck off with their ideas.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#206
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The max that is happening here, assuming the poster is referring to the current administration's policy to remove undocumented aliens from the country, is that some operational mistakes unfortunately will be made since an estimated 10 million people entered the country illegally in the last four years. It is my hope and belief that any such mistakes would be swiftly corrected, and that the undocumented people that ar…

First they came for the illegal immigrants and I did not speak out, because I was not an illegal immigrant. Then they came for the legal immigrants they didn't like and I did not speak out, because I was not a legal immigrant. [0] Then they came for their political enemies [1] and I did not speak up, because I was not their political enemy. Then they came for me - and there was noone left to speak for me. [0] https:/…

[deleted]

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#207
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The criminals will just use something that hides in plain sight. I think it was Encrochat devices that booted into a fairly vanilla looking OS, and there was another platform where it was hidden in something like a calculator app.

You mean, EncroChat, the company that was infiltrated by cops which led to 4500 arrests ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EncroChat

> a Dutch organized crime gang was involved and financed the developers.

I mean, maybe that has something to do with it?

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The steel-man case could be: > This will catch the x% of lone wolf terrorists who are too mentally unwell to use encryption and too unwell to hide their intentions. > Without this, the relative increase in terrorism will cause strongmen to get elected who will just enact even more severe surveillance, among many other bad things. > So it's not a choice between surveillance and no surveillance. It's a choice between r…

Don't know about other countries but in France most of the terrorist attacks have been coordinated using plain unencrypted sms. The criminals aren't the masterminds people portrait in the movies.

The criminals that are caught, maybe (:

How about the criminals that are not yet caught

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#209
post #193
post #17

Why does this stupid idea have to be killed so many times? Being watched constantly means living in fear, but seeing it almost become legally mandated practice over and over again is itself a form of living in fear. I'm so tired.

Almost as if there should be a rule that disallows introducing the same proposal multiple times under different names.

AFAIK there is a rule like that, but it needs that the proposal was voted down. Chatcontrol was never voted on by the EP. They bring it up every half a year and it would not be voted on until they can be sure it would pass.

Re: The EU could be scanning your chats by October 2025

#210

I was reflecting on the whole chat apps and protocols the other day and felt we might just have trapped ourselves artificially. If I want to casually keep in touch with a friend, I am supposed to have the following options: - SMS/RCS: no need for an app but is controlled - WhatsApp: no good to many reasons - Signal: how can you believe it is not controlled once it becomes the mandatory app in the US Gov. - Matrix: gr…

> In a way we just need MQTT servers, a client with reliable push notifications and a manual key exchange mechanism. That would be really hard for govs to target. Go even further: Meshtastic ( https://meshtastic.org/ ). P2P E2EE texting, primarily via LoRa mesh (a mesh of long-range low-bandwidth direct radio connections) plus MQTT backup, with surprisingly nice UX even for non-techies. You can message people directl…

Agree I love those LoRa devices & Meshtastic, but it requires your contacts to invest and carry additional hardware.

Now the most exiting project in that space IMHO is Reticulum because you can transparently mix transports: any radio (incl LoRa), TCP, UDP, etc. [0]

Their Sideband app [1] is not as polished as Meshtastic but you can start over the standard Internet, or I2P, yggdrasil and slowly introduce LoRa among your group of friends over time and if necessary.

Their LXMF messaging format is also interesting.

Those people are really doing a fantastic work.

- [0] https://reticulum.network/manual/interfaces.html

- [1] https://github.com/markqvist/Sideband

- [2] https://github.com/markqvist/LXMF

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