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.NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

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Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#201

Post by xps »

jug wrote: post #32

My favorite .NET 10 feature so far is not within the .NET library itself, but `dotnet tool exec` to run C# files as scripts without a build step. This has been available in F# for a long time via `dotnet fsi`, and for C# also via the third party cs-script tool. It took a surprisingly long time to officially reach the primary .NET language! I only really wish C# would’ve been directly integrated as an alternative scri…

It's great that Microsoft added this as an official feature but there has been an open-source third-party solution that does exactly the same thing for a long time: https://github.com/dotnet-script/dotnet-script

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#202

Post by pjmlp »

malkia wrote: post #162
pjmlp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are jumping over a few facts there. P/Invoke was born as J/Direct on J++, it became P/Invoke after the lawsuit, and Cool project turned into C#. Managed C++ Extensions in .NET 1.0 got replaced by C++/CLI on .NET 2.0, it was a .NET Core 3.1 milestone to support it, and has recently been updated up to C++20, minus modules. Still heavily used among .NET community on Windows. Meanwhile the native C++/CX and C++/WinRT…

I only wish if C++/CLI worked on other platforms...

Same here, for those of us comfortable on C++ land, it is much easier way to do integration with native libraries, than getting P/Invoke right.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#203

Post by rowanG077 »

tester756 wrote: post #11

.NET was the most sane programming ecosystem that I worked in. Great CLI, great package manager, very good stdlib, strong IDEs/Debuggers, etc. but sadly interesting jobs like OSes, databases and compilers are way less common than in C++ world :(

I liked .NET but the performance was really bad for anything that had even reasonably latency requirements. But this was 15 years ago, so maybe it has improved. I don't remember exactly what I wanted to do but it was something like pumping some event every few milliseconds and it was basically impossible. The jitter was already larger than the interval.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#204

Post by nic547 »

runevault wrote: post #134
pjmlp wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many things under Satya also feel like good old Microsoft, like lack of GUI frameworks for GNU/Linux, killing VS4Mac after the rewrite, dotnet watch drama, profiling tools being VS only,...

MAUI not supporting Linux feels like such a huge whiff. It is clearly possible to get at least decent cross platform support that includes linux in .net considering Avalonia exists.

MAUI is supposed to use native ui components, AvaloniaUI just uses Skia. I think going with a non-native approach would kinda make Linux a clear second class platform, especially with all the native features that need to be rebuilt?

Is there any multiplatform ui framework that's actually "native" for all the different linux ui toolkits?

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#205

Post by bob1029 »

rowanG077 wrote: post #203
tester756 wrote: post #11

.NET was the most sane programming ecosystem that I worked in. Great CLI, great package manager, very good stdlib, strong IDEs/Debuggers, etc. but sadly interesting jobs like OSes, databases and compilers are way less common than in C++ world :(

I liked .NET but the performance was really bad for anything that had even reasonably latency requirements. But this was 15 years ago, so maybe it has improved. I don't remember exactly what I wanted to do but it was something like pumping some event every few milliseconds and it was basically impossible. The jitter was already larger than the interval.

https://medium.com/@ocoanet/improving-net-disruptor-performa...

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#206

Post by bob1029 »

smackeyacky wrote: post #142

All these changes, yet still no satisfactory UI framework. Still no migration path from WinForms to something modern. I love .NET but if you're taking on an older desktop app that is still using VB.NET and WinForms it feels like Microsoft have decided to let you circle the drain with no supported way forward into MAUI or whatever stupid XAML UI they decided is the solution these days. On a server, .NET is fantastic a…

Assuming the web is not an option for whatever reason.

I did some Win32 interop recently and found it to be refreshing. It's definitely lower level and more difficult, but it will outlive all of these other paths.

Using tools like cswin32 makes this a lot more tolerable development experience from managed code.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#207

Post by cheschire »

pjmlp wrote: post #198
cheschire wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried each iteration of UI paradigm they've tried since WinRT and never really had any significant problems with any of them. WinRT, UWP, WinUI, MAUI... But then they aren't even willing to invest the time to dogfood their own products and fully replace the windows UI. Really doesn't inspire confidence. I suspect they also made a bad bet by going so hard on blazor without putting more support behind WASM itself.…

That would be a first, not having significant problems. As someone that was deeply invested into WinRT since Windows 8, and went back into distributed systems and Web after all the disappointment regarding how managemetn handled it. Everyone on the Windows development ecosystem has had enough from the multiple reboots and tool changes, UWP never being as good as WPF, WinUI iterations even worse, the team now went rad…

Sorry, to be clear I meant no significant problems with the tech.

Sure, it was opinionated tech, but that would’ve been ok if they had stuck with it like C# itself and fleshed it out more, which only would’ve happened had they implemented the entire OS in it. The fact that they couldn’t is in my mind the exact reason the tech failed.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#208

Post by wvbdmp »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #25

Only thing I want to hear about lately is the next major version of Visual Studio, I feel like it will never come. I always feel like every major version has drastic improvements, and I'm starved for them.

They’re consolidating the tech with SQL Server Management Studio, last I heard. I think they mean to get the rewrite of SSMS out this fall, but I may be misremembering. A new major version of VS is probably coming, although I must say I’m pretty pleased with the current tranquility.

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#209

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

recursive wrote: post #80
jug wrote: post #32

My favorite .NET 10 feature so far is not within the .NET library itself, but `dotnet tool exec` to run C# files as scripts without a build step. This has been available in F# for a long time via `dotnet fsi`, and for C# also via the third party cs-script tool. It took a surprisingly long time to officially reach the primary .NET language! I only really wish C# would’ve been directly integrated as an alternative scri…

I've wanted this for a long time. After reading this link, and the MS release announcement, I still don't understand what a "tool" is, or how you can use `tool exec` to run a single *.cs file. Is there a straight-forward recipe anywhere for doing this targeted at absolute simpletons?

> I still don't understand what a "tool" is

"A .NET tool is a special NuGet package that contains a console application. You can install a tool..."

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/global-t...

it's actually very similar to the node.js / NPM equivalent, which came first:

https://docs.npmjs.com/downloading-and-installing-packages-g...

Re: .NET 10 Preview 6 brings JIT improvements, one-shot tool execution

#210

Post by reactordev »

pjmlp wrote: post #187
adabyron wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anders Hejlsberg, a main architect on C# & TS, stated somewhere that they re-wrote the TS Compiler in Go because the syntax was the closest to how it was originally written and allowed re-writing to be easiest. He has a great write up of it somewhere on GitHub. Microsoft is an insanely huge company. There teams seem to be able to use whatever works best for the project/team. The old XKCD comic of org charts in big te…

Yeah, and then at BUILD 2025 session, he ended up explaining how they had to rewrite all the data structures, due to the less capable type system from Go versus Typescript. So the gain isn't as much as what is being sold. Meanwhile Azure has no issues using AI based translation to port C++ projects into Rust, which they could have done in a similar way to port into C#. Also, Go has a less capable tooling as C# for We…

Exactly. They chose Golang because they wanted to, not because of any technical limitation. Could have been C#, or Rust…
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