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Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

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Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#201

Post by BalinKing »

advisedwang wrote: post #173
smeej wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many ethicists value the continuation of someone's--anyone's--(literal) life over the continuation of anyone else's life style. I'm not arguing whether you should or shouldn't agree with them, nor saying anything about in which cases. It's just one of the primary things going on in the minds of those people, and you said you wondered.

Down screening is done at like 16 weeks. At 16 weeks that's hardly a life. Also you are being very dismissive by hand-waving away lifestyle. Quality of life is a significant factor in medical decisions. Many people choose short high-qol lives over longer low-qol lives.

That’s a different argument though, because this scenario is specifically about weighing one’s life versus a different person’s lifestyle.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#202

Post by supplied_demand »

apwell23 wrote: post #93
creakingstairs wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it just me or do I feel like the society is way more accepting nowadays? I had to pretty much hide who I was during school due to fear of bullying/ not fitting in but most kids these days seem to be able to be themselves in many ways. I agree we can be friendlier though!

> Is it just me or do I feel like the society is way more accepting nowadays? yes for sure. I make sure to teach that to my kids and model that behavior. Lot of my peers are doing that too. I like the 'differently abled' terminology and mindset so much better. When i was growing up the prevailing mindset among parents was that their kids will trampled on if they teach them to show kindness. Now we want our kids to be…

== When i was growing up the prevailing mindset among parents was that their kids will trampled on if they teach them to show kindness. Now we want our kids to be kind.==

I’m 41 and have noticed the exact opposite movement in my lifetime. Today, we celebrate the meanest people in society (we even elect them President). Kindness is considered a flaw and means you aren’t taking advantage of every opportunity to move yourself forward.

If I compare the rhetoric of Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump, it doesn’t tell me that we are more kind as a society.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#203

Post by Daub »

puppycodes wrote: post #10

Interesting, I wonder what else this might lead too! Encouraging we might be getting somewhere. I used to live near a Down syndrome center where a bunch of folks lived and I remember this one lady who was kitted out with Britney Spears everything, lunchbox, t-shirt, hat, and headphones. Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a l…

I run the risk of being downvoted on this issue, but there is a personality type associated with downs syndrome. My experience of living in a community of down syndrome young people certainly supported this, but there has also been quite a bit of research on the matter... search Google Scholar and you will see a ton. In brief: very social, positive minded and very creative. Importantly, this seemed not to be effected by puberty, unlike the autistic kids I have known. The year I spent in there company was a gift.

Edit: user smeej has cited a few papers on this matter.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#204

Post by BalinKing »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #199
lurk2 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re talking about a human person and making the case that the world would be better off if they had never been born.

Why is that bad? When the topic is abortion, not being born is considered a good thing for the child, whose life prospects aren't so good on account of the economic conditions of his mother.

> not being born is considered a good thing for the child

I can’t speak for the parent commenter of course, but this is by no means a universally accepted truth.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#208

Post by landl0rd »

ghurtado wrote: post #99
puppycodes wrote: post #10

Interesting, I wonder what else this might lead too! Encouraging we might be getting somewhere. I used to live near a Down syndrome center where a bunch of folks lived and I remember this one lady who was kitted out with Britney Spears everything, lunchbox, t-shirt, hat, and headphones. Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a l…

See, it's stories like this one that make me really question just how ethical it is to completely eliminate Down's from the gene pool. I understand it's the correct medical and scientific thing to do, it's just that it sometimes feels a little bit like eugenics for me.

If you marry someone to whom you’re attracted, check she’s mentally stable, reasonably healthy, aka reproductively fit, then you’re engaging in eugenics. Eradicating downs is eugenic. It’s also a good thing.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#209

Post by landl0rd »

kulahan wrote: post #97
zarzavat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

Because it's a form of eugenics, however far down the spectrum it may be. edit: I mean to imply here that the overton window is shifted, basically.

When you consider with which woman to conceive children, consciously or unconsciously, you are engaging in eugenics. It’s fine. Forced sterilizations aren’t but we’re not talking about those.

There isn’t a set of magic words people use (eugenics, isms/phobias) where the person accused of said word must prove that’s not the case before he can continue. “It’s eugenics” isn’t a reason to shut someone down.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#210

Post by kulahan »

landl0rd wrote: post #209
kulahan wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a form of eugenics, however far down the spectrum it may be. edit: I mean to imply here that the overton window is shifted, basically.

When you consider with which woman to conceive children, consciously or unconsciously, you are engaging in eugenics. It’s fine. Forced sterilizations aren’t but we’re not talking about those. There isn’t a set of magic words people use (eugenics, isms/phobias) where the person accused of said word must prove that’s not the case before he can continue. “It’s eugenics” isn’t a reason to shut someone down.

I don't disagree, but this doesn't change general opinion on the topic. People don't like discussing the idea that we should just delete anyone not up to standard.
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