Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman • Hacker News Board

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#201

Post by esseph » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:35 AM UTC

why_at wrote: post #180

esseph wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search "brandishing laws"

I'm familiar with the idea of "brandishing" being illegal, but I looked it up anyway. I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menacing which says "Self-defense is often explicitly given as an exception." It seems like then it would be legal to draw a gun without firing if it was in self defense? I have a hard time believing that there are any cases where shooting someone in self defense would be legal, but scaring them…

"There are various situations in which brandishing a firearm may occur. For instance, pulling out a gun during an argument or altercation with another person could be considered brandishing. Additionally, waving or gesturing with a firearm in a manner that suggests aggression or hostility towards others may also constitute brandishing. It is crucial to understand that even if no shots are fired, and no physical harm is inflicted, the mere act of displaying a weapon in such circumstances can lead to serious legal consequences."

Source: https://www.dischleylaw.com/blog/2024/june/understanding-the...

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#202

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:36 AM UTC

GiorgioG wrote: post #106

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #97

I recently bought a SIG P320, and a week later, I started reading articles about it self discharging. =P It’s not like it happens all the time, but it seems that if the safety lever spring’s thickness is off by a thousandth of an inch, and the height of the post it fits on is also off by a thousandth of an inch, and you drop the pistol at just the right angle with enough force, the FBI reportedly got it to discharge…

Odds are, you'll never experience the self-discharging issue. Having said that, I don't find a mostly-reliable firearm acceptable from a safety perspective. If I don't pull the trigger, it cannot go bang, ever, for any reason.

[deleted]

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#203

Post by gosub100 » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:36 AM UTC

colingauvin wrote: post #9

I have a 320C that I purchased in 2018 and have shot less than 100 rounds out of. I tried to sell it recently and was offered by two gun stores, less than $200. MSRP was around $500. Very annoyed with Sig over this. Their statements have been no help either, talk about Streisand effect.

They are in a peculiar logical pickle: admit the gun is defective and lose all their current lawsuits plus many more that will dogpile on. Plus take a devastating hit to future sales.

Or deny it, saving face and relying on FUD that the discharges (several were caught on video ) were random or somehow the fault of the owners. Sig were even using some anti-anti-gun arguments (the same retorts that 2A people use against no-gun advocates) against their own customers! Saying they weren't being responsible or something along that line. It's a terrible situation for everyone involved.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#204

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:37 AM UTC

8note wrote: post #193

esseph wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always carry chambered. 1. When you need it you won't remember to chamber due to stress 2. stress causes fine motor skill distortion 3. Only draw when you are prepared to fire (or you end up dealing with Brandishing laws)

a better alternative would be to not carry. if the stress is gonna mess with your fine motor control, youre probably gonna accidentally shoot a bystander anyways, because you happened to have been laid off earlier in the day. the stree messes with your memory, so the barista looks like a threat. the stress messes with your fine motor skill, so you hit the guy waiting for his coffee. and of course, you gotta shoot the…

[deleted]

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#205

Post by mNovak » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

Khaine wrote: post #129

Ian from Forgotten Weapons posted an interesting video on this a while back: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QusWrho19zE And then a more recent follow up https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iWVs2uD1XY

Just watching this, and he's saying this model has no manual safety. That's an absolutely wild design choice in my mind!

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#206

Post by spacephysics » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:41 AM UTC

hollywood_court wrote: post #8

jleyank wrote: post #2

This seems to suggest carrying with a chambered round. Is this prudent without an external threat? They can drop the thing, or some kind of impact can yield a “design problem”. Can’t they just chamber when there’s a need?

That may be personal preference, but IMHO there’s no reason to conceal carry if you’re going to do it without a round chambered. I’m a huge Sig collector and I’ve been a fan of theirs since the 90s. I’ve carried a Sig daily for 20+ years. I only carried a P320 for a few months until I finally downsized to the P365. But I’ve got to admit that their PR and response to these incidents is not a good look. But I am a bit…

Check out this video, the FBI report got released a few weeks ago. This was a FOIA’d report from 2024 of a police officer who had the P320 holstered, doing normal movements (didnt drop the holstered firearm)

Unique case in that the FBI got the firearm still in the holster (it hadn’t been removed or the round cleared after the discharge)

This is what has led to the recent uptick in Sig scrutiny, then unfortunately the OP incident happened and it’s rightfully so made Sig’s situation much worse

https://youtu.be/LfnhTYeVHHE

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#207

Post by ungreased0675 » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:42 AM UTC

djoldman wrote: post #143

TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

As someone who has never touched a firearm, I'm curious: what are you doing firing thousands of rounds? Is it target practice?

Imagine a driving range where a new ball was automatically teed up as soon as you hit the last one. It’d be really easy to keep hitting balls, trying to get the perfect most accurate shot, right? Then you’d want to hit three in a row, then five, then you realize you’ve been at the range for two hours and have spent way too much on ammo. That’s what recreational shooting is like.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#208

Post by jeffbee » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:42 AM UTC

gottorf wrote: post #173

avalys wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people spend time and money preparing for low-probability but highly catastrophic events. Purchasing insurance that covers your home for fire damage is one such example. The fact that the chance of a well-maintained home burning down is vanishingly small doesn’t make this an imaginary risk. Thinking about how to protect yourself from violent crime and deciding to purchase and carry a gun doesn’t seem fundam…

Yes, it makes me wonder whether all the naysayers have any sort of insurance coverage?

There are no circumstances under which my fire insurance policy will accidentally go off and kill someone.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#209

Post by gosub100 » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:45 AM UTC

darkteflon wrote: post #53

Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off. I have limited knowledge of guns. I understood that they had a physical safety switch that had to be manipulated before the firearm could be used. Is that the case? If so, is the safety left off when people are carrying with a round chambered? Or have I misunderstood the purpose…

The modern philosophy for a defense gun is that the holster is the safety. The holsters make it impossible to pull the trigger, and hold the gun securely all day. They are all supposed to be "drop safe" although there are some exceptions. So if somehow your gun fell out of its holster, it shouldn't discharge if you just let it fall (vs try to grab it).

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#210

Post by privatelypublic » Fri, Jul 25, 2025, 2:48 AM UTC

gottorf wrote: post #161

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thousandth of an inch would do it? They couldn't give more margin-of-safety to a critical part like that? A thousand of an inch isn't such a theoretical number. It's about 25 microns, and I've shimmed one of my back-focusing photography lenses for less than that much (about 10 microns, to be specific). This is something that they ought to be able to machine for, but depending on the context, it might not leave much…

> A thousandth of an inch would do it? They couldn't give more margin-of-safety to a critical part like that? If it's true, that's truly terrible design.

Its likely a misunderstanding and/or mischaracterization of "tolerance stacking."

A safe example is bike chain. If each one is 1 inch +- 0.01", if every single one is +0.01" then ten links will be long by a tenth of an inch. And might pass QC on the bike when pedaled by hand- but it'll fall off when somebodies full bodyweight and 100hrs of wear is out into it.