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Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

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Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#201

Post by neilv »

andy99 wrote: post #166
stan_kirdey wrote: post #75

Engineers: always negotiate for higher base salaries. In the vast majority of cases—especially during acquihires—your equity will be worth little or nothing. Founders and VCs still get paid; employees rarely do. Don't just accept promises. Ask for the 409A valuation, liquidation preferences, and pay bands. If a company won’t provide transparency, that’s your signal. Equity is a lottery ticket. Salary is money in the…

Yes - equity should be an incentive to contribute the the company's success, and partial compensation for the risk of going to a startup. One should value it at precisely $0 in terms of life planning. This becomes truer and truer the more of an employee and the less agency over the company's choices you have, but generally if you're not a co-founder (founding engineer doesn't count) equity traded off against salary i…

> equity should be an incentive [...] and partial compensation for [...] One should value it at precisely $0 in terms of life planning.*

Not very good incentive or compensation, if you have to value it at $0.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#202

Post by fusslo »

dehrmann wrote: post #197
fusslo wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my equity from 2years pre-acquisition: ~$2800. Then the CEO gave out bonuses when everyone threatened to quit. Then after his 3 month vacation to Italy, he came back driving his new Ferrari. My equity from 4 years ( employee ~60, grew to over 500 ): worthless. No one is able to exercise any options. They also readjusted when the valuation came below the total raised, making the value of my vested shares ~$13k ( down…

At some point, aren't the C Suite and directors failing their fiduciary responsibility? I know they have broad freedoms, but when you're reducing an a minority shareholder's equity by 95%, it's well past "fiduciary responsibility" and looking like fraud.

I am convinced every executive and wanna-be executive is on the 'inside joke' of funneling money out of the company into their pockets.

I am also convinced that investors believe it's the C Suite's responsibility to tear away any equity from employees to leave the largest pot for investors.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#203

Post by lmeyerov »

fusslo wrote: post #192
stan_kirdey wrote: post #75

Engineers: always negotiate for higher base salaries. In the vast majority of cases—especially during acquihires—your equity will be worth little or nothing. Founders and VCs still get paid; employees rarely do. Don't just accept promises. Ask for the 409A valuation, liquidation preferences, and pay bands. If a company won’t provide transparency, that’s your signal. Equity is a lottery ticket. Salary is money in the…

my equity from 2years pre-acquisition: ~$2800. Then the CEO gave out bonuses when everyone threatened to quit. Then after his 3 month vacation to Italy, he came back driving his new Ferrari. My equity from 4 years ( employee ~60, grew to over 500 ): worthless. No one is able to exercise any options. They also readjusted when the valuation came below the total raised, making the value of my vested shares ~$13k ( down…

Sorry to hear that =/

Work for good people with a history of moral dealing. A family member just had a life-changing payout because leadership was generous. A friend walked away from a company pre-pivot without equity for what became one of the decade's biggest acquisitions.

This stuff is lottery tickets, but real ones. You need to be smart about who you make your limited bets on.

And agreed, big cautionary note here shows that Windsurf having "founder-friendly" investors does NOT mean employee-friendly ones.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#204

Post by bwfan123 »

siliconc0w wrote: post #175

These stories really kill the golden goose because it means a lot of talent just won't work at a startup. YC isn't particularly great here either, they are pro founder but not pro startup employee. Most YC companies offer pretty paltry equity to even the first few hires - and that is even assuming you aren't going to get screwed down the line.

The risk-reward equation for startups vs boring-big-tech has turned completely upside-down. Back in the day, startups were the only lottery ticket to riches, not to mention do interesting work. But now, the tables are turned. For experienced engineers big-tech comps are attractive enough to put up with the office politics, and if you lucky do some interesting work.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#205

Post by dilyevsky »

mikert89 wrote: post #191
dilyevsky wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2c is these are almost always a consequence of the company not being a good business. Well, sometimes you get asshole founders/board members too that's not as common as the company just being an absolute money pit. So instead, I'd focus on asking about business fundamentals/strategy - if the company is money printer, everyone is likely going to do well financially

nope, it happens in "good businesses". once real money is on the line, everything is a dog fight. no one talks publicly because of the reputational repurcussions

not ime. you're also much more likely to get sued for this when real money is involved. cases that i know personally (and myself) either did ok and got pay out or everyone went to zero (below or close to strike price) but founders got secondaries (which screws VCs not the employees).

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#206

Post by ghaff »

dom96 wrote: post #188
dmoy wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lean fire on $600k-$800k is taking an extreme gamble on the cost of health insurance continuing to be subsidized way beyond Medicaid levels. Which you might be fine with, but it's a pretty big risk. Unsubsidized healthcare in a lot of places in the US costs $10k-$20k per person per year. For early retirement that eats up like $400k-$500k per person.

This is why you don't retire in a country with private healthcare

Medicare isn't that much cheaper than exchanges although the cost decreases over time as you aren't earning significantly any longer. And lots of issues associated with moving countries.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#207

Post by neilv »

BhavdeepSethi wrote: post #91

I went through an acquisition very early in my career, and for the longest time I believed it was the best outcome for everyone. Over time, I realized that my naive belief was purely due to the founders going way above and beyond to make sure each and every employee (including folks doing just data entry) got a good outcome (accelerated vesting, significant equity in new company, top of the band pay, etc.). It made m…

> due to the founders going way above and beyond to make sure each and every employee (including folks doing just data entry) got a good outcome (accelerated vesting, significant equity in new company, top of the band pay, etc.)

Commendable of them. That should be normal decency by leaders. I wonder how common it is.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#208

Post by fermentation »

fusslo wrote: post #192
stan_kirdey wrote: post #75

Engineers: always negotiate for higher base salaries. In the vast majority of cases—especially during acquihires—your equity will be worth little or nothing. Founders and VCs still get paid; employees rarely do. Don't just accept promises. Ask for the 409A valuation, liquidation preferences, and pay bands. If a company won’t provide transparency, that’s your signal. Equity is a lottery ticket. Salary is money in the…

my equity from 2years pre-acquisition: ~$2800. Then the CEO gave out bonuses when everyone threatened to quit. Then after his 3 month vacation to Italy, he came back driving his new Ferrari. My equity from 4 years ( employee ~60, grew to over 500 ): worthless. No one is able to exercise any options. They also readjusted when the valuation came below the total raised, making the value of my vested shares ~$13k ( down…

I often see job postings here looking for "top <1% engineer talent" paying $100k and <1% equity and I wonder who is actually applying.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#209

Post by ghaff »

quickthrowman wrote: post #161
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, roughly $600,000-800,000 is enough to lean FIRE, the last time I checked.

If I retired at 40 I don’t think I’d want to remove more than 2% a year from the principal amount, which is.. $12,000-$16,000 a year. How is that possible? Even with a fully paid off house, you still have property taxes, utilities, maintenance. Even 4% a year which is recommended for a 30 year retirement, you’re only taking out $24,000-$36,000 a year.

Presumably, it would be cheaper if I had a fairly modern urban condo but my exurban property is a good $15K+ per year. Heck, I just had a kitchen fire and, even with good insurance, I'll probably be $50K out of pocket when all is said and done. I could probably have done things more on the cheap but didn't really make sense.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#210

Post by chollida1 »

para_parolu wrote: post #180
sokoloff wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1M in one shot leaves you with around $600K after taxes in most states. That’s enough to pay you around $24-30k/yr. Unless you already had several other million saved already, I bet you’d be working again.

$25k/yr can be decent living in some places.

Sure but not in North America, where i assume most readers of this site are from.
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