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A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

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Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#201

Post by gbuk2013 »

gsliepen wrote: post #138
gbuk2013 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As per the article, QUIC (transport protocol underneath HTTP/3) uses slow start as well. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/id/draft-ietf-quic-recovery...

A lot of people don't realize that all these so-called issues with TCP, like slow-start, Nagle, window sizes and congestion algorithms, are not there because TCP was badly designed, but rather that these are inherent problems you get when you want to create any reliable stream protocol on top of an unreliable datagram one. The advantage of QUIC is that it can multiplex multiple reliable streams while using only a sin…

They also tend to focus on bandwidth and underestimate the impact of latency :)

Interesting to hear that QUIC does away with the 3WHS - it always catches people by surprise that it takes at least 4 x latency to get some data on a new TCP connection. :)

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#202

Post by FlyingSnake »

GavinAnderegg wrote: post #144

14kB is a stretch goal, though trying to stick to the first 10 packets is a cool idea. A project I like that focuses on page size is 512kb.club [1] which is like a golf score for your site’s page size. My site [2] came in just over 71k when I measured before getting added (for all assets). This project also introduced me to Cloudflare Radar [3] which includes a great tool for site analysis/page sizing, but is mainly…

Second this. I also find 512kb as a more realistic benchmark and use it for my website.

The modern web has crossed the rubicon long time ago for 14kb websites.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#203

Post by mousethatroared »

GavinAnderegg wrote: post #144

14kB is a stretch goal, though trying to stick to the first 10 packets is a cool idea. A project I like that focuses on page size is 512kb.club [1] which is like a golf score for your site’s page size. My site [2] came in just over 71k when I measured before getting added (for all assets). This project also introduced me to Cloudflare Radar [3] which includes a great tool for site analysis/page sizing, but is mainly…

A question as a non user:

What are you doing with the extra 500kB for me, the user?

> 90% of the time in interested in text. Most of the reminder vector graphics would suffice.

14 kB is a lot of text and graphics for a page. What is the other 500 for?

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#204

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

anymouse123456 wrote: post #147
9dev wrote: post #7

The overlap of people that don’t know what TCP Slow Start is and those that should care about their website loading a few milliseconds faster is incredibly small. A startup should focus on, well, starting up, not performance; a corporation large enough to optimise speed on that level will have a team of experienced SREs that know over which detail to obsess.

This idea that performance is irrelevant gets under my skin. It's how we ended up with Docker and Kubernetes and the absolute slop stack that is destroying everything it touches. Performance matters. We've spent so many decades misinterpreting Knuth's quote about optimization that we've managed to chew up 5-6 orders of magnitude in hardware performance gains and still deliver slow, bloated and defective software prod…

Docker good actually

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#205

Post by nicce »

mousethatroared wrote: post #203
GavinAnderegg wrote: post #144

14kB is a stretch goal, though trying to stick to the first 10 packets is a cool idea. A project I like that focuses on page size is 512kb.club [1] which is like a golf score for your site’s page size. My site [2] came in just over 71k when I measured before getting added (for all assets). This project also introduced me to Cloudflare Radar [3] which includes a great tool for site analysis/page sizing, but is mainly…

A question as a non user: What are you doing with the extra 500kB for me, the user? > 90% of the time in interested in text. Most of the reminder vector graphics would suffice. 14 kB is a lot of text and graphics for a page. What is the other 500 for?

If you want a fancy syntax highlighter for code blocks with multiple languages on your website, that is alone about that size. E.g. regex rules and the regex engine.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#206

Post by marcthe12 »

djoldman wrote: post #141
susam wrote: post #74

I just checked my home page [1] and it has a compressed transfer size of 7.0 kB. / 2.7 kB main.css 2.5 kB favicon.png 1.8 kB ------------------- Total 7.0 kB Not bad, I think! I generate the blog listing on the home page (as well as the rest of my website) with my own static site generator, written in Common Lisp [2]. On a limited number of mathematical posts [3], I use KaTeX with client-side rendering. On such pages…

I never understood math / latex display via client side js. Why can't this be precomputed into html and css?

Well there is mathml but it has poor support in chrome til recently. That is the website native equations formatting.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#207

Post by andix »

keysdev wrote: post #177
jeroenhd wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your approach is "I don't care because I have more important things to focus on", you never care. There's always something you can do that's more important to a company than optimising the page load to align with the TCP window size used to access your server. This is why almost all applications and websites are slow and terrible these days.

That and SPA

SPAs are great for highly interactive pages. Something like a mail client. It's fine if it takes 2-3 seconds extra when opening the SPA, it's much more important to have instant feedback when navigating.

SPAs are really bad for mostly static websites. News sites, documentation, blogs.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#208

Post by extra88 »

zero_shift wrote: post #117
FlyingAvatar wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of internet bandwidth is people streaming video. Shaving a few megs from a webpage load would be the tiniest drop in the bucket. I am all for efficiency, but optimizing everywhere is a recipe for using up the resources to actually optimize where it matters.

I feel this way sometimes about recycling. I am very diligent about it, washing out my cans and jars, separating my plastics. And then I watch my neighbour fill our bin with plastic bottles, last-season clothes and uneaten food.

At least you and your neighbor are operating on the same scale. Don't stop those individual choices but more members of the populace making those choices is not how the problem gets fixed, businesses and whole industries are the real culprits.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#209

Post by masfuerte »

nicce wrote: post #205
mousethatroared wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A question as a non user: What are you doing with the extra 500kB for me, the user? > 90% of the time in interested in text. Most of the reminder vector graphics would suffice. 14 kB is a lot of text and graphics for a page. What is the other 500 for?

If you want a fancy syntax highlighter for code blocks with multiple languages on your website, that is alone about that size. E.g. regex rules and the regex engine.

As an end user I want a website that does the highlighting once on the back end.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#210

Post by firecall »

ghoshbishakh wrote: post #41
firecall wrote: post #36

Damn... I'm at 17.2KB for my home page! (not including dependencies) FWIW I optimised the heck out of my personal homepage and got 100/100 for all Lighthouse scores. Which I had not previously thought possible LOL Built in Rails too! It's absolutely worth optimising your site though. It just is such a pleasing experience when a page loads without any perceptible lag!

rails has nothing to do with the rendered page size though. Congrats on the perfect lighthouse score.

Indeed it does not :-)

It was more a quick promote Rails comment as it can get dismissed as not something to build fast website in :-)

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