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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

201–210 of 394 posts

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#201

Even if you get past the roadblocks Apple has put in place, it’s not beer and skittles for browser makers in the EU. The CRA, which is now in effect, lists browsers as class I important products. Technical documentation, design documentation, user documentation, security conformance testing, a declared support period at the time of download, software bill of materials, the legal obligation to respond to and make all…

As usual this is a panicked overreaction. No, startups won't be fined out of existence by the iron fist of regulators who despise innovation. > (93) In relation to microenterprises and small enterprises, in order to ensure proportionality, it is appropriate to alleviate administrative costs without affecting the level of cybersecurity protection [...] It is therefore appropriate for the Commission to establish a simp…

I have two comments:

First, I believe that you are correct in that small enterprises are not going to be fined out of existence (unless they continually fail to adhere to CRA requirements). The issue is that if you want to make a browser in the EU, you have to be extremely serious about it.

Second, you are quoting from the section of the act that the EU uses to lay out their reasoning, justification, and thought process. This section is not legally binding. The actual text (page ~28 and beyond in the linked document) is what controls. We have seen from DMA enforcement in regard to Apple that the EC does not consider conflicts between the two sections to be important.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#202
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't experience this extra Share menu in Google Maps. The share button at a location directly brings up the iOS native share sheet.

I don't use Google Maps, YouTube is what I was thinking of.

Ah okay. I never watch enough YouTube to download its app.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#203

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

As a user I don’t get why Apple allows this user hostile behavior in an app they distribute in their app store.The platform has alternatives. iOS has a sharing sheet. iOS has a default browser setting (in EU).

Same with Reddit. They have their own share sheet, and then 'other' which goes to the iOS built-in one.

I wish Apple was more strict on this. There is no reason for them to have their own. Same with the photo viewer.

I love the iOS photo viewer, it allows me to select text directly to copy it etc, but Reddit needs to use their own.

On the other hand, it should be possible for me to set up a default photo viewer.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#204

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

In the same way, Apple is equally difficult about forcing the use of Apple Maps.

If you receive an address in an iMessage, clicking/long-holding will always open in Apple Maps. There is no way to share to Google Maps (it doesn't appear in the list), and the default setting to use Google Maps doesn't affect iMessage.

You have to copy the address, switch to Google Maps, paste it in, and search. I would much prefer clicking the address to open in the app of my choice.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#205
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Google Search relentlessly nags you to download the Google Search app.

Is it useful anymore? I switched to DDG a few years ago and then OpenAI search. Even when I was on DDG exclusively I didn’t miss Google search at all. And occasionally when I use Google search I get terrible results filled with garbage ads and the likes.

DDG is just Bing

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#208
post #6

This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it

This is an understandable concern, but it's not actually supported by the data.

On MacOS, where there has long been engine choice, Safari market share is >50%. Defaults are powerful and many users are happy with the real and perceived benefits of the first-party brand.

Safari has >90% market share on iOS today. If engine competition were permitted, they might lose a few percent initially, but would be highly motivated to close any gaps.

There's no world in which WebKit usage among the world's wealthiest consumers drops low enough that web developers can target a chromium monoculture. The purpose of engine choice is to create real competition in order to motivate Apple to do better.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#209
It's too bad Apple still doesn't allow different browser engines.

Perhaps there's some scenario where webkit usage collapses and chrome increases here that I'm not seeing, and/or some security management issues.

Increasingly I'm looking at remote streaming browsers to get what's needed for some use cases.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#210

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

If you use DDG browser or FireFox you'll find it dangling even below Safari, in a unattractively colored button "default browser". A slap in the face of course, why do you think I have an alternative default browser?
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