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GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

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Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#201

Post by Aurornis »

Jach wrote: post #162
arn3n wrote: post #4

Obesity is highly correlated with other medical conditions, from cancer to diabetes to heart disease. I wonder if there is a point at which it is cheaper for health insurance companies to offer subsidized or even free GLP-1s to patients than pay out for other specialized medications. For example, my insurance covers flu shots in my community every year because it's presumably less expensive to pay for the shots compa…

I don't think GLP-1s are particularly expensive, so my top preference would be to just see them easily available. While not quite the same, it's a win that Rogaine/Minoxidil were once prescription-only but for a long time now can be bought at any grocery store and taken to the self-checkout. Still, I think the subsidy approach has been done for smoking problems via nicotine products before, and e.g. nicotine gum cost…

> I don't think GLP-1s are particularly expensive

On-patent GLP-1s (all of them right now) are actually extremely expensive. Right around $1000 per month.

I don’t want to discourage anyone who needs them from seeking treatment, but their discontinuation rate can be somewhat higher than you’d think from a life-changing drug because many people don’t like certain effects or even encounter side effects.

Weight loss drugs are also a challenging category for OTC because they’re a target of abuse. People with eating disorders and body dysmorphia already seek out black market GLP-1s at a high rate and it would be a difficult situation if they could pick them up impulsively from the medicine aisle. It’s also common for people to misuse OTC medications by taking very high doses hoping for faster results, which has to be considered.

There’s a libertarian-minded angle where people say “Who cares, that’s their own problem. Medications should be free for everyone to take.” I was persuaded by those arguments when I was younger, but now I have a very different perspective after hearing about the common and strange world of OTC medicine abuse from my friends in the medical field. Just ask your doctor friends if they think Tylenol should still be OTC if you want to hear some very sad stories.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#203

Post by Aurornis »

petesergeant wrote: post #50
arn3n wrote: post #4

Obesity is highly correlated with other medical conditions, from cancer to diabetes to heart disease. I wonder if there is a point at which it is cheaper for health insurance companies to offer subsidized or even free GLP-1s to patients than pay out for other specialized medications. For example, my insurance covers flu shots in my community every year because it's presumably less expensive to pay for the shots compa…

> I wonder if there is a point at which it is cheaper for health insurance companies to offer subsidized or even free GLP-1s to patients than pay out for other specialized medications. That the NHS is getting to a place where it’ll provide it, I’d say yes.

Everyone likes to bash the US healthcare system, but at the same time it’s remarkable how much subsidized GLP-1 access Americans are getting compared to much of the world. The paradox of discussing healthcare online.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#204

Post by jtrn »

Clinical psychologist here in Norway, and just my subjective experience: People stop GLP1 agonists for the following reasons, in descending order: - They want to enjoy eating again. - Medications are a hassle. - Worry about long-term effects, even if there is no alarming evidence for now. - Price (we are a spoiled/rich country). - Other (like hating needles, feeling bad for taking medications that others need more, being aggressively lazy).

Often, I think that it’s a bad move, as the clinical effect of losing around 20 kg would have to be matched by some extremely high frequency and severe side effects. Overweight is still not sufficiently appreciated for how dangerous it is, especially after they ramped up production so much that there isn't a real shortage anymore.

Ironically, most of the people who respond well to Ozempic and stay on it have few psychiatric problems. But those who almost desperately want to get off it after a while might be those who have a psychological component to their overeating. The obvious suspect then is eating as emotional regulation. So one could extrapolate, at least as a hypothesis, that the ones who have worse life expectancy due to regained weight after a year of usage are the ones who have a double set of problems stacked against them: overweight and emotional problems. That would have a huge effect on longevity.

This is PURE free association though, no deep analysis behind it.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#205

Post by msgodel »

romaaeterna wrote: post #16

The problem (not new with GLP-1s) is that people lose weight, get life insurance, and then regain. The biggest part of that equation is regain part. Most people quit GLP-1s because of costs. Let's fix that.

"Measuring" people for the sake of insurance just sounds hard. Partly because people are complex but also because people just hate being measured.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#206

Post by pfdietz »

Sparkle-san wrote: post #33
firesteelrain wrote: post #24

I was on Mounjaro for two months. I was also dieting and walking 10k steps a day. I lost 25 lb and my A1C went down to 5.0 from 5.7. All my cholesterol numbers were in range. I stopped taking it and lost 25 more. I haven’t regained the weight. People who gain it back did not learn the lesson and did not effectively change their habits. You need the discipline - and a good support system. But if you don’t have that an…

[flagged]

Giving people the magic antibiotic cheat code seems antithetical to helping them develop habits and discipline to avoid bacterial infection.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#207

Post by mikhailt »

Group_B wrote: post #131
44520297 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which other self-inflicted medical conditions do we deny medical care for?

Good point. The main root cause of obesity is too many calories. Usually, obesity and the symptoms / diseases that come with it improve / go away when eating less calories. Does any human technically need medication to eat less calories?

Yes. Gut microbes has already been shown to have a great impact on how we metabolize by what med we take, what we eat or drink and intake from our environments (micro-plastics, etc).

There is no single main root cause for obesity. We just combine it as one because there isn’t a lot of long term research or funding for it right now. There is a lot of sigma against obesity and people keep blaming other people instead.

Thyroid hormone disorders have been linked to cause weight gains. This can’t be fixed by simply eating less, it can literally do far more damage.

Medications have been linked to cause weight gain as side effects. This wouldn’t do anything to eat less until they stop taking meds and for some, they cannot do that.

Americans’ increasing desire for sweets have increased the sugar content in all of our food including the fruits and vegetables over time. We’ve intentionally bred our healthy stuff to be sweeter. So eating less can make us even more hungrier because we go into sugar crush without realizing it. Changing diets is difficult without us doing all sorts of calculations of finding the right cheap healthy food at the right store and that is you are lucky enough to have any.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#208

Post by fnord77 »

Aurornis wrote: post #201
Jach wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think GLP-1s are particularly expensive, so my top preference would be to just see them easily available. While not quite the same, it's a win that Rogaine/Minoxidil were once prescription-only but for a long time now can be bought at any grocery store and taken to the self-checkout. Still, I think the subsidy approach has been done for smoking problems via nicotine products before, and e.g. nicotine gum cost…

> I don't think GLP-1s are particularly expensive On-patent GLP-1s (all of them right now) are actually extremely expensive. Right around $1000 per month. I don’t want to discourage anyone who needs them from seeking treatment, but their discontinuation rate can be somewhat higher than you’d think from a life-changing drug because many people don’t like certain effects or even encounter side effects. Weight loss drug…

I pay about $40/month for mine, grey market from china

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#209

Post by k__ »

jtrn wrote: post #204

Clinical psychologist here in Norway, and just my subjective experience: People stop GLP1 agonists for the following reasons, in descending order: - They want to enjoy eating again. - Medications are a hassle. - Worry about long-term effects, even if there is no alarming evidence for now. - Price (we are a spoiled/rich country). - Other (like hating needles, feeling bad for taking medications that others need more, b…

How much does it cost right now?

Are there any alternatives coming out soon or generics?

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#210

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

carlosjobim wrote: post #133
FabHK wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and the question was about the aggregate effect. What happens if all life insurers go bankrupt?

That is great, they are by definition a net negative on the economy as a whole? You shouldn't gamble on your own health.

Life insurance, in the past, was frequently illegal.

I'd argue that it should be illegal again, as a moral hazard (directly contributing to countless murders and other schemes) and as a particularly morbid form of gambling.

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