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IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

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Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I sell it without paying a gazillion fees? Spoiler alert: No. There's a whole bunch of bullshit: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair#p... You can sort of run your own device if you're fine with giving google far too much information and they can block you at any time. Face it, bigtech has a hardon for closed ecosystems. If they could they'd make it so every computer that wants to send an et…

Matter has nothing to do with Google except they are supporting the standard. If you care so much about an open ecosystem Google Home shouldn't even matter, you would be worried about Home Assistant support.

Well, there appears to be some link. I'm not clear on what it is, but here are the Home Assistant docs for using a Matter dev board: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/#experimen...

> NOTE for Android users: You need to follow the instructions at the bottom of the page to add the test device to the Google developer console, otherwise commissioning will fail.

Anyway, you absolutely should care about Google Home support if you want to sell a device. It'd be ridiculous to sell something that only works with Home Assistant even if I'd personally be perfectly happy with that.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I sell it without paying a gazillion fees? Spoiler alert: No. There's a whole bunch of bullshit: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair#p... You can sort of run your own device if you're fine with giving google far too much information and they can block you at any time. Face it, bigtech has a hardon for closed ecosystems. If they could they'd make it so every computer that wants to send an et…

Do you extend that criticism to USB, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.? The alternative and current status quo is every vendor developing their own proprietary, incompatible and insecure protocols. Unless there's a better alternative I am unaware of, Matter is a step towards greater interoperability and openness.

I do, but it's especially grating here because Zigbee didn't have this restriction, and none of your examples actually enforce it technically. I have some Chinese USB devices that are very useful but use an incorrect VendorID. But I don't care, they work great.

And besides, so far I've been able to use 100% of my Zigbee devices with Zigbee2MQTT and it's been wonderful.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

It is still somewhat annoying for those of us with solid walls. I can't just add a new Thread device at the other side of my house as the walls attenuate the signal between it and the border router. Equally I can't start replacing Zigbee devices willy-nilly in case I create Zigbee dead zones. Not the biggest problem in the world but it does mean I'll likely need to get some pointless Thread smart plugs as temporary n…

I wish Matter accounted for mixed-mode networks. If a Thread device is nearby, use that. If not, try Wi-Fi.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I sell it without paying a gazillion fees? Spoiler alert: No. There's a whole bunch of bullshit: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair#p... You can sort of run your own device if you're fine with giving google far too much information and they can block you at any time. Face it, bigtech has a hardon for closed ecosystems. If they could they'd make it so every computer that wants to send an et…

Isn't that true for ZigBee too? Can you sell ZigBee devices (and market them as such) without paying fees?

There are no technical limitations preventing this.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#205
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is correct; the hand-wringing in this thread is fair in that Matter does have a central governing authority who determine which devices are trusted, but completely unjustified insofar as that making a DIY Matter fabric/network is extremely easy. The part about Matter that's "closed" is the device attestation process; the Distributed Compliance Ledger (DCL) contains a closed set of trusted Product Attestation Aut…

So it's kinda like UEFI Secure Boot? PKI with a default list of officially trusted companies, and it's supposed to let the end user add their own keys, but the details make people nervous because it would be really easy for the vendor to break that any time they feel like it?

The design is both better and worse:

* The list of officially trusted companies and root certificates is stored on a blockchain, for whatever reason, but at least this way it's a fairly open list and it's supposed to be shared equally across all vendors.

* It's a lot easier to get an official key provisioned / device certified. It's not like UEFI where there's some murky trusted set of root keys belonging to a major manufacturer (Microsoft) who blesses things at a whim.

Importantly:

Even if the "vendor" (in this case, it's Google/Apple) stopped supporting test keys in their Commissioner, one could still run a "fully private" Matter fabric with their own Commissioner. Of course, if this happened, a user couldn't commission their devices onto the walled garden Google Home / Apple Home ecosystems, but, they could still make their own Matter fabric with their own Controller. It's not done this way normally: even with HomeAssistant, which can run its own Matter Controller, the Commissioner role is typically delegated to Apple/Google SDKs through the Home Assistant app. But this is because it's a huge pain to develop a working Commissioner (due to Bluetooth, mostly), not because it's not possible. There's no "lock-out" that causes Matter devices to only provision to approved Controllers/Fabrics - the lock only goes the opposite direction, to prevent end users from buying insecure/spyware devices with the Matter label.

However, unfortunately:

* You don't really enroll your own key or root certificate with most of the "standard" (Apple/Google) Commissioners to use them with development devices - rather, you use a fixed set of vendor or device IDs which signify them as test devices (in the extra easy path, you even use a fixed device certificate for a Test Device). This makes sense from the constraint that users can still build and develop their own devices while protecting the ecosystem from "rogue vendors," but it's not like UEFI Secure Boot in this case where the end user can enroll their own keys and truly control the system end to end.

Now again, there's nothing stopping the end user from building a Commissioner which would trust their own self-signed certificate, besides it being a pain in the butt, but that's not how it works by default - it's truly a development mode, not a bring-your-own-keys.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#206
This could easily have as much to do with support costs as anything with the technical side of the protocols.

A member of my family works in customer support for a company making devices using both zigbee and thread, and claims that support calls for debugging zigbee are often among the longest (and thus most expensive) calls they handle.

Unsure what IKEA's tech support looks like, but I assume that most issues not solved by support turn into returns, which are also bad for the bottom line.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "closed" in the same way that all open wireless standards (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc.) are closed. You can read the spec, use the open source SDK, and build devices without paying a cent. If you want to participate as more than a hobbyist, you'll need to join the CSA (a non-profit mutual-benefit corporation). This will cost a bit less than half of what it cost manufacturers to join the equivalent organization for Z-…

> It's "closed" in the same way that all open wireless standards (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc.) are closed. You can read the spec, use the open source SDK, and build devices without paying a cent. My understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - is that it's not quite the same; I'm pretty sure you can make a wifi card on your own (maybe modulo FCC approval, but that's true of any radio) and you might not be allowed to put an o…

Matter has a small but growing hobbyist community. A recent project I saw via https://www.reddit.com/r/MatterProtocol/:

(1) https://tomasmcguinness.com/2025/06/27/matter-building-a-tin... (2) https://tomasmcguinness.com/2025/06/30/matter-tiny-dishwashe...

You can definitely add uncertified accessories (using CSA test Vendor ID 0xFFF1) to HomeKit via an "Add Anyway" confirmation. Because Apple tends to be extremely conservative about this kind of stuff, I'd expect that all systems that support Matter would allow this.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home Assistant "just works". Yes it has a ton of knobs, but in the 3 years I've been running it, it's had no issues. Certain manufacturer devices being flaky, yes, but as a platform, it's been rock solid. I've not touched its config in over a year and everything works as it should.

I second that. Home Assistant "just works". I have had it running on this cheap used HP EliteDesk 705 G3 Mini Desktop for more than 4 years now without a hiccup and barely any maintenance or hygeing work on it. Just sitting in my tv stand and doing it's work. https://homeautomation.substack.com/p/setting-up-home-assist...

Curious, do you do HA updates automatically, manually regularly, or “manually once a year or so”?

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#209
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Perhaps I never put enough effort into it, but I've slowly coalesced on only having IKEA smart home products after years of acquiring piecemeal stuff and trying to wire it together with Home Assistant. I've shut down HA, and with every non-IKEA "smart" thing I have nowadays I just use the manufacturer's app (though I've become pretty sour on most smart devices overall and avoid them when possible). I didn't really ca…

I also switched from Philips Hue to IKEA. I like how you can pair things by holding them close and pressing a button. Doesn’t need to get smarter than that for me.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second that. Home Assistant "just works". I have had it running on this cheap used HP EliteDesk 705 G3 Mini Desktop for more than 4 years now without a hiccup and barely any maintenance or hygeing work on it. Just sitting in my tv stand and doing it's work. https://homeautomation.substack.com/p/setting-up-home-assist...

Curious, do you do HA updates automatically, manually regularly, or “manually once a year or so”?

Manual, would do it once a month or so. Hasn't broken ever since I have been running HA. I run the full Haas OS btw.
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