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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#201

Post by nelox »

regularization wrote: post #160
lukan wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists in general. And where exactly is the proof the gangs are connected to ISIS? "The basis for Lieberman’s allegation of ties to IS was unclear." It is easy to throw dirt and hope something sticks, but the main thing speaking against his group seems Netanjahu's support in my opinion. But otherwise I don't see the scandal so much here. Especially not compared to…

> I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists Netanyahu prefers Hamas, he was propping them up prior to the current battles, according to the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... Also, if, as in the recent New York City mayoral debate, US politicians are supposed to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, which it recognizes itself as, then I don't see the big deal over Palesti…

Ironically, the closest you will get to something approaching that type of Marxist-Leninist utopia in the Middle East, is living in an Israeli kibbutz near the border with Gaza.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#202

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

xg15 wrote: post #190
alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I dont disagree with anything you said, but isn't that the role of elected leaders ? Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ?

Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#203

Post by amanaplanacanal »

edanm wrote: post #176
perlgeek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Israel's perspective, Palestinians are a problem. Long term, they have a few options: 1) Give them their own state. This is difficult for quite many reasons, and Israel (by which I mean the current government) doesn't want that 2) Give them full citizenship rights equal to Israel's citizens, make sure they have a proper minority representation, and let them participate in the regular political processes. The cur…

[flagged]

Gaza was governed by Hamas under an Israeli blockade. You don't think that had any effect on Gaza lives?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#204

Post by joenot443 »

OhioMan2943 wrote: post #115
niemandhier wrote: post #108

This comment thread is the most civilised online discussion I have seen in a long while about this particular topic, despite people coming from diverse backgrounds and disagreeing. In this sense, hackernews gives me hope that online culture is not lost yet.

It's because realistically hn is an oasis of educated people that has been overlooked by astroturfers and foreign interests (very strongly including the government in this piece), and hasn't expanded its core demographic for profit. This is what the rest of the internet would be like without manipulation. Imagine how much better things would be

HN has an experienced and famously fair moderator for whom cultivating the conversation on this site is a full time job.

I have no doubt whatsoever that dang is the biggest reason that HN comment sections are so high quality compared to the rest of the web.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#206

Post by hidingfearful »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #202
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I dont disagree with anything you said, but isn't that the role of elected leaders ? Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?

> Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?

They are cowards who are just in it to enrich themselves by bribery, theft, and extortion.

You are looking in the right direction and not seeing just how far our society has gone.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#207

Post by edanm »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #203
edanm wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Gaza was governed by Hamas under an Israeli blockade. You don't think that had any effect on Gaza lives?

(An Israeli and Egyptian blockade)

Yes, I do think it had an effect, but less of one than their governing body did, hence my saying so.

Either way, unless you think the blockade itself is "Israel treating Gazans as sub-human", then my point still stands.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#208

Post by alkhatib »

originalvichy wrote: post #134
lucubratory wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe it is unintentional.

They can take out nuclear scientists thousands of kilometers away by either planting bombs in their cars in traffic or firing accurate munitions through their windows when they sleep. Thousands of kilometers away. The IDF can be highly sophisticated in their plans and methods when they want to.

Those things you described are also war crimes.

Calling it sophisticated does not change that fact.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#209

Post by _l7dh »

volleyball wrote: post #123

I guess the Israeli government's original plan to arm and support drug gangs and literally ISIS (euphemistically called 'clans') as "aid security" wasn't working out? Especially after it was revealed said "security" was stealing and reselling the food aid under the protection of IDF while the Israeli govt. and media blamed the looting on Hamas. And after the Israeli opposition leader exposed the whole charade and Net…

Sourced articles like these are good and further proof that Israel is a psychopathic state and society. But what's odd is to depict is as "surprising" or even shocking when the same state has been carpet bombing civilian, including women and children for 16 months straight, causing what is estimated at 300 000 deaths, committing every single atrocity or infringement to the international law possible, including targeting medics, journalists, using starvation as a weapon of war, bragging on it on social media, having politicians incite to eradicate the remaining part of the Gaza population, and I could go on and on with nameless atrocities. So just to put things in perspective, this article depicts a horrible incident, but it is entirely in line with the rest of the Israeli policy, and unfortunately pales in comparison with the ongoing large-scale massacre.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#210

Post by hermitcrab »

Is anyone surprised at horrific behaviour by Israel and the IDF at this point?

Every country has a percentage of right wing psychopaths. Unfortunately, they seem to be running the government in Israel.

Israel's intended end game seem to be to make Gaza completely uninhabitable, so that the Palestinians are forced to leave, then Israel can grab the land. A bit like they are doing in the West Bank, but on turbo mode. However, the Palestinians don't want to leave their land (why should they?) and no other state wants to take them. So we are left with enormous human misery, with no end in sight.

Most baffling of all, many Western states are not just turning a blind eye, but actively supporting Israel. Shame on them.

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