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Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

nytimes.com

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Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#201

Post by StefanBatory »

dybber wrote: post #125
bigtones wrote: post #7

>> Casper Klynge, a former Danish and European Union diplomat who worked for Microsoft, said the episode was in many ways the “smoking gun that many Europeans had been looking for.” Damn right. Strong evidence that Europe should look after their own, and not rely on the good old US of A. Written by an Australian who thinks we should do the same down here.

Danish digitization ministry will soon attempt a move away from Microsoft because of this. We can only hope that this is only the first step, and that broader move away from US tech companies will follow. https://www.theregister.com/2025/06/13/danish_department_dum...

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#202

Post by SllX »

jeremyjh wrote: post #180
SllX wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put another way, we defend American interests.

We defend some of America's interests, and harm some of its other interests. Mostly we defend the interests of the richest people in America and its military industrial complex.

We also elect the leaders that make those decisions and form the parties that nominate leaders to choose from. The winners of those elections get to choose the direction to lead.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#203

Post by Towaway69 »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #181
benced wrote: post #120

Perhaps Europe should try building their own tech industry so they have fewer problems like this.

the EU does. US corps acquire most of our successful companies.

Having worked in the startup scene in Europe, the main exit strategy was to sell off to the American original - because most European startups were copycats of their American counterparts.

So I won’t say it’s all just the US coming in and buying everything up. It was partly European investors wanting to make a profit.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#204

Post by SllX »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #179
SllX wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not appropriate for an international court that we’re not even a part of to put our Presidents and their subordinates on trial, nor is it something we should meekly concede to.

given a future where the US slides into despotism, who would hold it to account and be a champion for its people?

Frankly that is our problem to worry about.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#205

Post by crazygringo »

It looks like Microsoft is doing everything it can to avoid repeating this in the future:

> Microsoft said the decision to suspend Mr. Khan’s email had been made in consultation with the I.C.C. The company said it had since enacted policy changes that had been in the works before the episode to protect customers in similar geopolitical situations in the future. When the Trump administration sanctioned four additional I.C.C. judges this month, their email accounts were not suspended, the company said.

> Microsoft and other U.S. companies have sought to reassure European customers. On Monday, Satya Nadella, Microsoft’s chief executive, visited the Netherlands and announced new “sovereign solutions” for European institutions, including legal and data security protections for “a time of geopolitical volatility.” Amazon and Google have also announced policies aimed at European customers.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#206

Post by SllX »

Muromec wrote: post #175
SllX wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not appropriate for an international court that we’re not even a part of to put our Presidents and their subordinates on trial, nor is it something we should meekly concede to.

Yes it is. FAFO

Given we’re not party to the ICC, we maintain a permanent seat on the UNSC, and nobody within striking distance of The Hague is willing to back you up on this, it is decidedly not appropriate.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#207

Post by kragen »

JimBlackwood wrote: post #153
SllX wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not appropriate for an international court that we’re not even a part of to put our Presidents and their subordinates on trial, nor is it something we should meekly concede to.

It is however appropriate for a group of nations to agree that a person who has committed crimes (according to them) is to be arrested upon entering one of their nations. It’s not really something you can or cannot concede to, unless you are of the opinion America is the only sovereign state in the world.

Historically speaking, Westphalian sovereignty meant that there was no such thing as an "international criminal court", nor "war crimes". An ICC party such as France hypothetically arresting, for example, Netanyahu, for things that he did in Israel, would amount to a substantial erosion of Israel's sovereignty in the Westphalian sense. Under the Westphalian system, Israel's prince would have sole jurisdiction in such cases.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily tell us anything about whether it's good or bad. Eroding Westphalian sovereignty in such a sense is the whole point of the ICC, the EU, and arguably even the UN (though, of these three, only the ICC would have the particular result described in my previous paragraph). But it's worth pointing out that it's a major difference from centuries of historical precedents, not American exceptionalism.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#209

Post by kragen »

JimBlackwood wrote: post #163
SllX wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but we’re going to interpret the arrest of a sitting or former POTUS, their direct subordinates or military personnel for the purposes of trying them in the ICC as a political act, not an act to maintain law and order in their home countries and its going to be much easier for us to justify invading and evacuating those people.

That is definitely true. I can imagine the ICC would fall shortly after (since I think enough member states will not execute the arrest order and so it’s existence does not do much)

You're imagining this happening in a world where the US has the political status it had ten years ago, not the political status it will have ten years in the future.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#210

Post by SllX »

cyberax wrote: post #172
SllX wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have the Uniform Code of Military Justice for military personnel, and on paper, a Congress to hold the President accountable, although that obviously needs to be beefed up because the results lately have been unsatisfactory. It does not need to be the ICC, nor should we allow it.

And then we have presidents that almost uniformly pardon people convicted of the grossest war crimes. Trump pardoned Clint Lorance who ordered murder of civilians. Before that, William Calley convicted of multiple murders had his sentence commuted by Nixon to 3 years of house arrest.

All I’ll say is the President’s pardon power either needs to die, or be massively rethought. I’m not a fan lately.
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