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Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

fly.io

201–210 of 283 posts

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, something like this is the future of programming. Agents fiddling away and we pop in to see what's going on or work on things they aren't well suited for. Honestly, this is depressing. Pop in from what? Our factory jobs?

Hopefully, from sitting by the pool drinking margaritas ... but I doubt we will get to keep our new found freedom.

Never going to happen. More efficiency and automation won’t lead to more free time and money for the masses, it will lead to fewer people employed, and those that are will be working the same hours for the same money but outputting more. Only the rich people will benefit.

In the long term. In the short term, we get to do the same work but faster.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotcha! I'll keep reading it I guess until I see what I am missing! Good job again!

I did none of the work! I'm just like Flavor Flav or Bez in this situation. I will relay your congrats to Chris and the team, though. ;)

Huh ok! Well you sure are quite passionate. Thanks either way I guess.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, something like this is the future of programming. Agents fiddling away and we pop in to see what's going on or work on things they aren't well suited for. Honestly, this is depressing. Pop in from what? Our factory jobs?

I understand that we are slowly taking away our own jobs but I do not find it depressing. I do find it concerning since most people do not talk about this openly. We are not sure how we are restructure so many jobs. If we cannot find jobs, what is the financial future for a large number of people across the world. This needs more thinking, honest acceptance of the situation. It will happen, we should take a positive…

Read up on the Jevons Paradox

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#204
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how are they isolating ai agent state from app-level processes without breaking BEAM's supervision guarantees?

They run on separate machines and your agent just controls the remote runtime when it needs to interact with the system/write/read/etc

appreciate the clarity, that helps.

quick followup if the agent's running on a separate machine and interacting remotely, how are failure modes handled across the boundary? like if the agent crashes mid-operation or sends a malformed command, does the remote runtime treat it as an external actor or is there a strategy linking both ends for fault recovery or rollback? just trying to understand where the fault tolerance guarantees begin and end across that split.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#205

Phoenix creator here. I'm happy to answer any questions about this! Also worth noting that phoenix.new is a global Elixir cluster that spans the planet. If you sign up in Australia, you get an IDE and agent placed in Sydney.

What LLM(s) is the agent using? Are you fine-tuning the model? Is the agent/model development a proprietary effort?

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running phoenix.new itself locally isn't something we're planning So no plans to open the source code?

Everyone has to eat.

For sure. I'm just hesitant to recommend sending one's codebase to a server running code I can't inspect. I suppose that's the status quo with LLM's these days, though.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#207
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the long tail. It's that the HEAD of packages in Elixir are also often poorly maintained or not maintained. The fundamental question for any developer: can I be productive quickly? Despite all that Elixir has going for it, the answer is often "no." Want a first-party client library for the service you're using? Typically the answer is "too bad, Elixir developer." And writing your own Finch or Req wrapper for…

What packages in Elixir have you found unmaintained/missing in the ecosystem? Genuinely curious.

anything OAuth

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that we are slowly taking away our own jobs but I do not find it depressing. I do find it concerning since most people do not talk about this openly. We are not sure how we are restructure so many jobs. If we cannot find jobs, what is the financial future for a large number of people across the world. This needs more thinking, honest acceptance of the situation. It will happen, we should take a positive…

Read up on the Jevons Paradox

> In economics, the Jevons paradox (/ˈdʒɛvənz/; sometimes Jevons effect) occurs when technological advancements make a resource more efficient to use (thereby reducing the amount needed for a single application); however, as the cost of using the resource drops, if the price is highly elastic, this results in overall demand increasing, causing total resource consumption to rise. Governments have typically expected efficiency gains to lower resource consumption, rather than anticipating possible increases due to the Jevons paradox.[1]

I do think there will be some Jevons effect going on with this, but I think it's important to recognize that software development as a resource is different than something like coal. For example, if the average iPhone-only teenager can now suddenly start cranking out apps, that may ultimately increase demand for apps and there may be more code than ever getting "written," but there won't necesarily be a need for your CS-grad software engineer anymore, so we could still be fucked. Why would you pay a high salary for a SWE when your business teams can just generate whatever app they need without having to know anything about how it actually works?

I think the arguments about "AI isn't good enough to replace senior engineers" will hold true for a few years, but not much beyond that. Jevon's Paradox will probably hold true for software as a resource, but not for SWEs as a resource. In the coal scenario, imagine that coal gets super cheap to procure because we invent robots that can do it from alpha to omega. Coal demand may go up, but the job for the coal miner is toast, and unless that coal miner has ownership stake, they will be out on their ass.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully, from sitting by the pool drinking margaritas ... but I doubt we will get to keep our new found freedom.

Never going to happen. More efficiency and automation won’t lead to more free time and money for the masses, it will lead to fewer people employed, and those that are will be working the same hours for the same money but outputting more. Only the rich people will benefit. In the long term. In the short term, we get to do the same work but faster.

Indeed, why would an employer pay us a high salary to sit by the pool? The benefits will go to the founders/investors and the customers. They'll benefit greatly from the increased output and lower costs, but the middlemen (SWEs) will be cut out. That's a great thing if you're a founder/investor or a customer, but not if you're the middleman. New opportunities may come around, but I don't think that's inevitable. It remains to be seen.

Re: Phoenix.new – Remote AI Runtime for Phoenix

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How tightly coupled to Fly.io are generated apps?

Everything starts as a stock phx.new app which use sqlite by default. Nothing is specific to fly. You should be able to copy the git clone url, paste, cd && mix deps.get && mix phx.server locally and the app will just work.

If you're willing to share, is maintaining that modularization the plan going forward? I'm pretty happy to use and pay for this and deploy it to fly, but only as long as I'm not "locked in."
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