Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express • Hacker News Board

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#201

Post by NoblePublius » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 3:56 PM UTC

richiebful1 wrote: post #40

NoblePublius wrote: post #25

“ I love Disney and I love Dolly Parton, but it says something deeply broken about our national priorities when their theme park trains outclass public infrastructure in billion-dollar economies. Be serious.” Europe has lots of train infrastructure because it was very poor after WW2, and its people could afford nothing but train fare. America has lots of car infrastructure because it was very rich after WS2, and its…

Certainly there's an element of personal choice. I currently live in a town of 3,000 in a rural state that was previously served by trains. Once cars became accessible to the masses, that train service was no longer sustainable. But in actual US metro areas where much of the country lives, land use choices were made to enhance moving cars at the expense of other modes of transport. Urban areas were bulldozed to funne…

“Land use choices” are downstream of what residents want less what they can afford. You have it backwards.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#202

Post by NoblePublius » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 4:00 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #52

NoblePublius wrote: post #25

“ I love Disney and I love Dolly Parton, but it says something deeply broken about our national priorities when their theme park trains outclass public infrastructure in billion-dollar economies. Be serious.” Europe has lots of train infrastructure because it was very poor after WW2, and its people could afford nothing but train fare. America has lots of car infrastructure because it was very rich after WS2, and its…

> It’s not because American government doesn’t invest in public transit. It’s because Americans, even poor Americans, overwhelmingly choose personal transportation. If there is no usable public transit then people have to use cars. But if they have cars then there isn't the will for the public transit. A vicious circle. Public transit does need to be built somewhat on a "if you build it they will come" philosophy, wh…

Again, you have it backwards. Penn Station went bankrupt in the 1960s because rail passenger volume didn’t match the projections made in the 40s and 50s. Most American, even poor Americans, could afford cars, so they bought them. The only way mass transit (it doesn’t have to be public) works is either in dense urban environments or with a society too poor to afford alternatives. I’m not making a pro car argument or anti transit market. I’m just pointing out the actual forces that influence the creation and usage of all transit.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#203

Post by NoblePublius » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 4:03 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #132

NoblePublius wrote: post #25

“ I love Disney and I love Dolly Parton, but it says something deeply broken about our national priorities when their theme park trains outclass public infrastructure in billion-dollar economies. Be serious.” Europe has lots of train infrastructure because it was very poor after WW2, and its people could afford nothing but train fare. America has lots of car infrastructure because it was very rich after WS2, and its…

Timeline is wrong. Most of the European rail infrastructure (and indeed American) was built before WW1, quite a lot before WW1. The critical ingredient wasn't wealth per se but oil. Which also determined the lines of attack and victory in the war.

America built train tracks at the same time and the rail Operators went bust post WW2 because Americans stopped taking trains.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#204

Post by NoblePublius » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 4:04 PM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #46

NoblePublius wrote: post #25

“ I love Disney and I love Dolly Parton, but it says something deeply broken about our national priorities when their theme park trains outclass public infrastructure in billion-dollar economies. Be serious.” Europe has lots of train infrastructure because it was very poor after WW2, and its people could afford nothing but train fare. America has lots of car infrastructure because it was very rich after WS2, and its…

>its people have the freedom to choose personal transportation. A lot of American choice is an illusion. The national expressway network was created to serve national security purposes. Beloved trolley systems in medium density cities were unceremoniously ripped out. Car and tire companies pushed the bus-ification of public transport in order to kill any notion that it should offer comfort and reliability. The Americ…

It’s funny to me that you think people were forced to by cars by “ripping out trolleys” when it was the buying of cars that did that.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#205

Post by simple10 » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 4:43 PM UTC

I've been to Dollywood a few times while visiting relatives in Tennessee. It's a trip. The rides and shows are fine. The real attraction is the people watching. By far the best and weirdest slice of Americana in a theme park. Highly recommended.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#206

Post by bpt3 » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 4:50 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #200

bpt3 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, I don't know who is comparing the two and ignoring cost, so you can put away that strawman. Secondly, road costs are mostly paid for by fuel (i.e. use) taxes, and I think the fuel tax should be increased to pay for all of it personally. What percentage of public transit costs are covered by use taxes? In my area (which is a major city that is not NYC), it's around 10%, and it still makes little financia…

Use taxes cover about 36%[1] of road construction and maintenance, the rest comes out of the general budget. If they were raised to cover all of the costs driving would be unaffordable to many people. Or at the very least Americans would suddenly be interested in small cars again. Some other countries do push more of the burden of road maintenance onto drivers and those countries tend to have far more robust public t…

That's only for state and local government from what I can tell, and they could offset increases in fuel taxes by reducing things like property taxes if desired. Federal highway spending has almost entirely been covered by federal fuel tax revenue, but a recent ramp up in spending without increasing revenue now has the put the trust fund at risk of depletion.

Americans would suddenly be interested in small cars again, which seems like a win to me, because there's almost nothing that will make them desire public transit despite what some hope for.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#207

Post by jandrese » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 5:04 PM UTC

bpt3 wrote: post #206

jandrese wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use taxes cover about 36%[1] of road construction and maintenance, the rest comes out of the general budget. If they were raised to cover all of the costs driving would be unaffordable to many people. Or at the very least Americans would suddenly be interested in small cars again. Some other countries do push more of the burden of road maintenance onto drivers and those countries tend to have far more robust public t…

That's only for state and local government from what I can tell, and they could offset increases in fuel taxes by reducing things like property taxes if desired. Federal highway spending has almost entirely been covered by federal fuel tax revenue, but a recent ramp up in spending without increasing revenue now has the put the trust fund at risk of depletion. Americans would suddenly be interested in small cars again…

There is another monkeywrench in road funding. Use taxes are mostly from fuel taxes, which electric vehicles don't pay. As the vehicle fleet electrifies that gap will need to be covered somehow.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#208

Post by jandrese » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 5:06 PM UTC

bpt3 wrote: post #194

jandrese wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many political pundits are still convinced that it's not possible to elect a woman as US president. Thus far the two that have tried have both managed to lose to Donald Trump.

Maybe try running candidates that aren't highly unpopular? Or ones who don't call a significant percentage of the population "deplorables"? Or ones who don't refuse to state consistent policy objectives or provide coherent explanations for major swings in her stance on key political positions? Or... Trump is a reaction to large portions of the population being actively screwed over by decades of neoliberal policy tha…

I do find it amusing that people still say that women are "too emotional" to hold the job while Trump is throwing temper tantrums and making knee jerk proclamations almost daily on Truth Social.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#209

Post by xp84 » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 6:11 PM UTC

WorldMaker wrote: post #81

deelowe wrote: post #15

Took the family to Dollywood this year and it was by far the best run theme park I've been to. I was amazed at the cleanliness, friendliness of the staff, and how well maintained everything was. The train was really cool too. One of only two times I've been able to see a real coal fired steam engine functioning.

Dolly's amusement parks company Herschend took over operations of Kentucky Kingdom and it has been very interesting watching the care being put into that park, especially with comparison to when it was managed by Six Flags. Kentucky Kingdom is not yet "Dollywood North" by any stretch of imagination, but you can see enough of the care and emphasis on friendliness that you can kind of see the expected trajectory at thi…

That's great to hear. With Six Flags being such a polar opposite to the kind of care Dollywood represents, especially.

I'm still sad that Cedar Fair sold out to Six Flags, because they had at least a modestly better reputation. Six Flags in my opinion has long been run in a fashion that makes private equity proud: Reduce cap-ex to the minimum level, minimize cleaning, maintenance, staffing, etc. while extracting every last dollar possible for short-term gain.

Re: Dolly Parton's Dollywood Express

#210

Post by bpt3 » Thu, Jun 12, 2025, 7:11 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #207

bpt3 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only for state and local government from what I can tell, and they could offset increases in fuel taxes by reducing things like property taxes if desired. Federal highway spending has almost entirely been covered by federal fuel tax revenue, but a recent ramp up in spending without increasing revenue now has the put the trust fund at risk of depletion. Americans would suddenly be interested in small cars again…

There is another monkeywrench in road funding. Use taxes are mostly from fuel taxes, which electric vehicles don't pay. As the vehicle fleet electrifies that gap will need to be covered somehow.

I believe most states (mine definitely does) are applying a use tax at registration.

I would be fine with the mileage being tracked at the annual inspection and getting a bill based on that, but it seems like I'm in the minority there.