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Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

developer.apple.com

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Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#201

Post by abcd_f »

simondotau wrote: post #177
throw0101c wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The A-squad design team left Apple 15 years ago. Does the A-squad include Steve Jobs, who seemed to have been a fan of skeuomorphism: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeuomorph#Virtual_examples Does the A-squad include Johnny Ive, who gave us butterfly keyboards and the Touch Bar (where (IIRC) the initial revision of which did not have a separate physical key for ESC)? Though Ive did get rid of skeuomorphism.

> Though Ive did get rid of skeuomorphism. By replacing skeuomorphism with minimalism, Ive's anti-skeu was a cure nearly as worse as the disease. They were right to move away from skeuomorphism, but they did so recklessly, giving us a UX where almost all cues for an element being "clickable" were stripped away. Ive hasn't done a single impressive thing after Jobs' departure. To the extent that Ive did anything notewo…

I've been in agreement with you up until this point -

> it's astonishing how rapidly Apple improved after Ive's departure

Is there another Apple? What improvements are you talking about, leave alone astonishing ones?

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#202

Post by rpdillon »

rozab wrote: post #145
derefr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of "design the manhole cover first", the reason is that manhole covers aren't just round — they're (very subtle) domes. A dome is: 1. the best shape for taking stress from very heavy trucks putting all their weight on them without the manhole itself gradually bowing, and 2. is best at transferring that stress equally into the manhole wall (cast concrete cylinder) itself. (A square manhole + manho…

You seem very confident about all this. In the UK manhole covers are generally square.

This piqued my interest, and it seems you're completely correct, but also the metal covers seem much more complex than what I was imagining.

https://www.randb-uk.com/product-category/ductile-iron-manho...

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#204

Post by ashwinsundar »

ivape wrote: post #185
matsemann wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is denying that it looks cool. The problem is how it affects UX.

They ran tons of a/b testing on user groups. I can tell you it feels fresh to me which is very necessary with aesthetics (fashion). Their main operating principle I believe is that they have acclimatized users to the position and flow of the UI for over a decade. At that point, you can embellish the UI. If I skinned HN to anything you would still be totally intimate with where things are so long as I didn’t put yello…

A/B testing doesn’t work if the actual answer is C

I don’t want my computer (which I use for work) to be a fashion statement. I stare at the UI all day, every day. My opinion matters just as much as any designer’s.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#205

Post by rahen »

seydor wrote: post #153
whiteboardr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, to be truly realistic it also would need to take into account ambient lighting scenarios surrounding the device displaying it. Like this it’s really just another try in recreating glass which never made sense to be used in UI. It is beyond me, how this got chosen as a way forward - taking visual design which makes sense in a VR/AR environment, to ruin their rectangular display UI. It will make implementation wa…

It's not actually glass, instead the apple engineers and designers are basically simulating effect of surface tension of drops of liquid. Unfortunately the refraction at the edges of a droplet is not informative about whether the droplet is inward or outward facing (i.e. if it it toggled on or off). Hence why they use additional highlights and shadow to indicate the 3D structure. The liquid effect is a total gimmick…

I know most people couldn’t care less about this, but those gimmicky animations probably consume more computing power than the entire Apollo project, which strikes me as unnecessary and wasteful. Given the choice, I’d much rather have a clean, efficient interface.

I tend to like Material Design in comparison. It’s clean, efficient, and usable. I just hope Google won’t try to "improve" it with annoying gimmicks and end up making things worse, like Apple did here.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#207

Post by avalys »

chartered_stack wrote: post #93
mrtksn wrote: post #43

I think I'm convinced with liquid glass design, the issues highlighted by the users in the beta release IMHO are a result of rushing it out for WWDC. It appears that they didn't have enough time to polish the UI to comply with the principles described in this video. For example the designer in this video says no glass over glass but the control center and the lock screen are glass over glass. It looks cluttered and t…

The main issue I feel is that Apple's internal threshold for what quality of software is acceptable to be launched to the public has dropped a lot in the years since the last major redesign. Yes, they iterate through versions and drop things that don't work with their design philosophy (parallax effects on iOS 7) but the first major version they released always seemed well thought out and solid from a design perspect…

This hasn’t been “launched to the public”. It’s a developer beta so that developers can start working on testing and updating their apps for the new OS.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#208

Post by thomascountz »

I think this looks neat and I think it is a set of sensible design rules for AR and transparent (i.e. just-a-pane-of-glass) devices.

The contrast issues are an issue for discovery, but by now, maybe design norms for standard apps mean we've reduced ourselves to controls with only symbols, and sometimes even just color, without text. Meaning, perhaps location, shape, and tactility will be more important than legibility.

However, this probably only works in extreme cases; where the ubiquity of the interface means users already know what to expect. This does not work for innovative designs or new things. Think, the "send" button in chat, email, messaging apps. It's often blue/green and located near the text input. Maybe an oblong jelly bubble near a textbox is clear enough in most cases.

That said, that concept does remind me of eco-friendly toilets in Europe with two buttons for flushing: one is larger than the other, and one uses more water than the other , but I always forget which is which. A large button using more water makes sense, but so does a large button signaling the one you should use most often (i.e. the one that uses less water). There's something I use everyday, something with immediate feedback, something I've tried to learn, but something I haven't gotten quite right.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#209

Post by matwood »

abcd_f wrote: post #201
simondotau wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though Ive did get rid of skeuomorphism. By replacing skeuomorphism with minimalism, Ive's anti-skeu was a cure nearly as worse as the disease. They were right to move away from skeuomorphism, but they did so recklessly, giving us a UX where almost all cues for an element being "clickable" were stripped away. Ive hasn't done a single impressive thing after Jobs' departure. To the extent that Ive did anything notewo…

I've been in agreement with you up until this point - > it's astonishing how rapidly Apple improved after Ive's departure Is there another Apple? What improvements are you talking about, leave alone astonishing ones?

The MBP went from few ports and thinner at all costs, back towards functionality.

Re: Liquid Glass – WWDC25 [video]

#210

Post by wpm »

hasmolo wrote: post #167
whiteboardr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, to be truly realistic it also would need to take into account ambient lighting scenarios surrounding the device displaying it. Like this it’s really just another try in recreating glass which never made sense to be used in UI. It is beyond me, how this got chosen as a way forward - taking visual design which makes sense in a VR/AR environment, to ruin their rectangular display UI. It will make implementation wa…

the liquid glass ends up being vital for windows in AR. the vision pro has this, and it really helps you see behind the windows you've placed. while a shit experience on a phone, i do think liquid glass is a useful choice in the AR world

Back in my day (as far back as a month ago), we just called that effect “transparency” or “translucency”. Hell, there are types of AppKit popup windows that have the effect on by default, that have existed untouched since the early days of Mac OS X. Don’t give Apple more credit than they deserve here.
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