Earlier quoted context omitted.
Definitely-- The first "Tent server implementation" will have it's own name, TBD. We spent a lot of time on nomenclature and still aren't 100% with any of the terms, they're effectively all in flux until v1.0. The wackier issue is whether users call their "Tent-servers" "Tents". If you have any suggestions on names for this or any other terms, we'd love to hear them! edit: when the hosted version launches it will be…
I think you should call your server TBD and then make up what it stands for :) It's harder than I thought, but the "T" is obviously Tent ..
Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
201–210 of 229 posts
Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been thinking about this for a while too, and I agree that the peer-to-peer element is essential. So far, it appears that all the would-be open social media apps/protocols/whatever rely on you having your own server. That, frankly, is a deadly failing. Per Metcalfe's Law, social networks are only valuable when they are maximally inclusive, and the requirement to have your own server is something that will always…
And even if it is just as easy, or easier, to set up as facebook or twitter, it still might fail because of the user and the egg problem. As much as I would love to use and have a network like this, until all the people I keep in touch with through facebook use it, I'll still have a facebook. I wonder if it's plausible, even possible, to have all those p2p benefits (encryption, authentication, privacy) and some how a…
FB and Twitter have APIs. Of course, they can revoke your key. But they have web clients, so they can be scraped.
Faced with a genuinely distributed opponent, there's no way the existing behemoths can keep your data in their silos.
For instance, FB can block tent.is at the API level or even at the IP level. But if Tent hosts pop up all around the internets, and if they are general-purpose enough that users can install their own scraping gateways, which can't be attacked centrally using technical or legal means... it's game over. To me this is one of the less recognized advantages of a distributed service.
Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
HTTP is a huge, hefty, inefficient and complex protocol whose only advantage is that HTML/JS supports it by default. Arguments that 'websockets' solve this are ridiculous in the face of the fact that we can just use 'sockets', like we always have. WebSockets are a work-around for the constraints of the browser. As a mobile/desktop/server engineer, I would love the opportunity to work with other server-side teams that…
HTTP implements an architectural style which ensures reliability, scalability, decoupling of systems and support for hypermedia for a complex network of disparate, unreliable systems and networks. Do you have any suggestion that provides the same features, or should we forgo them because HTTP is "hefty"?
Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are putting together a wiki-style solution for community-curated post types. Common types are expected to be standardized so that apps are interoperable. For example status/microblog would be a standardized post type. We will launch with common types specified, so that everyone doesn't reinvent the wheel. After that, community managers will help keep the devs in line.
One issue I can see is that you only need to have one friend who uses a third party tentd with questionable privacy policies and now everyone they're connected to has their data exposed. Would it be possible to implement it such that you can say 'yes, you can have this data, but only if your server is not being run by 'blacklist' (would have to assume the requesting sever doesn't lie about it's identity). On the posi…
Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#205Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#206Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#207PHP support is vital.
Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're grossly over-estimating the difficulty of defining a protocol. It's no more difficult than defining the protocol for which you'll use HTTP as transport. Load balancers know how to load balance straight TCP. HTTP caching servers are an HTTP-centric idea. The 'libraries' you'll need can be much, much smaller when all you need is a bit of framing and serialization, instead of a complete complex RFC compli…
I think you're grossly over-estimating the difficulty of defining a protocol. It's not writing the protocol that I find the most difficult. It's reimplementing everything the uses the protocol. Load balancers know how to load balance straight TCP. Which is only useful if all the nodes are exactly the same, but that prevents you from distributing the data across them based on the user profiles, and then load balance a…
I'm not sure what you think makes that complicated to implement without HTTP, or why you consider it 'free'. Netflix had to write custom code to support that, and could have just as easily done so on top of a message passing architecture ala ZeroMQ or even AMQP.
> That's a tautology. The question is: are they a useful idea? Is being able to take advantage of existing and deployed solutions like CDNs useful? Seems to me like it would be.
Not really, no -- neither a tautology nor are they particularly useful for API implementation. Their primary value is in caching resources for HTTP requests in a way that meshes well with the complexity of HTTP.
If you need geographically distributed resource distribution than HTTP may be a good idea simply because:
- There's widespread standardized support for HTTP resource distribution.
- Its inefficiencies are easily outweighed by the simple transit costs of a large file transfer.
We're largely talking about server "API", however.
> I think you underestimate the advantages that some of the core HTTP concepts provide.
No, the core concepts are more-or-less fine. It's the stack that's inefficient and grossly complex, largely due to browser constraints and historical limitations.
Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you're grossly over-estimating the difficulty of defining a protocol. It's not writing the protocol that I find the most difficult. It's reimplementing everything the uses the protocol. Load balancers know how to load balance straight TCP. Which is only useful if all the nodes are exactly the same, but that prevents you from distributing the data across them based on the user profiles, and then load balance a…
> Which is only useful if all the nodes are exactly the same, but that prevents you from distributing the data across them based on the user profiles, and then load balance according to the user id, as (if I'm not mistaken) Netflix does. Since they're using subdomains as user identifiers, you'd get that for free using an existing, well-tested HTTP load balancer. I'm not sure what you think makes that complicated to i…
It's free because it already exists. Load balancers for hypothetical protocols don't.
Not really, no -- neither a tautology nor are they particularly useful for API implementation. Their primary value is in caching resources for HTTP requests in a way that meshes well with the complexity of HTTP.
If you need geographically distributed resource distribution than HTTP may be a good idea simply because:
- There's widespread standardized support for HTTP resource distribution.
- Its inefficiencies are easily outweighed by the simple transit costs of a large file transfer.
We're largely talking about server "API", however.
Isn't the whole point of this system to transfer people's content - posts, pictures, videos, etc - between servers? I would think pure API "calls" would be a small part of the whole traffic.
No, the core concepts are more-or-less fine. It's the stack that's inefficient and grossly complex, largely due to browser constraints and historical limitations.
But to implement them, you need more than "a bit of framing and serialization".
Re: Introducing Tent - the decentralized social web
#210We're building something like this for a while at Qbix. It's not an easy problem to solve when it comes to privacy and security: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120110469#b Eventually to arrive at this: http://myownstream.com
Looks ambitious in liberating the user and their data, but it seems you've taken too long and have stumbled upon substantive problems on your own. The screenshot of the platform seems old fashioned, but eventually by liberating the user/data, you are making them stand on their own island, hence there will be no "networking" or connections in the true sense, as it is currently happening on a single platform like Faceb…