How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming • Hacker News Board

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#201

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:37 PM UTC

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #183

masom wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenCV and other onboard computer softwares can be trained to recognize shapes, 10+ years ago there was a demo of a NodeCopter controlled small drone following red flags. Stick the GPS coord, fly there, and once in a geofence look for a shape to crash into doesn't seem impossible given what was possible 10 years ago.

Given these are static targets, it might be possible to relay precise GPS information from that morning’s satellite data. No real time intelligence required. Just dead reckoning to the target coordinates.

Dead reckoning in a drone would be a nearly impossible feat considering how variable wind can be.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#202

Post by gosub100 » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:38 PM UTC

keepamovin wrote: post #64

netsharc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sun Tzu says it better: "A military operation involves deception." He could be telling the truth, he could be lying... A drone programmed to automatically boot up , check its location, and if it's at the right coordinates, take off and crash at some other coordinates (the airfield) is more satisfying to "fans" of automated warfare. For extra fun, add some other code to "look for plane-like objects to crash into", but…

It's strange - blocking GPS is typical around military sites. So, assume the drones were hard-coded to zero a location - they couldn't do it, as GPS would be blocked. They had to be piloted. Interesting.

In addition to the other reply, it might have been done with CV. Identify landmarks to get bearings, drop bomb on thing that looks like airplane.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#203

Post by gosub100 » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:40 PM UTC

4gotunameagain wrote: post #56

RenThraysk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only need one camera drone capable of identifying targets. And just tells another drone to bomb it.

..in theory. In practice, building such a complex system in a fail safe way is not that easy.

"in a fail safe way" goes out the window in wartime.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#204

Post by RenThraysk » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:45 PM UTC

dmkolobov wrote: post #196

RenThraysk wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One camera drone can see if another drone is on target.

So the old “use a single unreliable 2D instrument to coordinate multiple fast-moving projectiles in three dimensional space” approach.

You are just continuing to spout nonsense.

Camera drone hovers above target and kamakazi drone intersects the line between camera and target, and drops.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#205

Post by petra » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:47 PM UTC

sreekanth850 wrote: post #167

petra wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the kill rate of this system ?

None of them caused any casualities or any damage to infrastructure. As we have multi layered defense system with L70 and Zu23 for very short range Defense agains drones and UAV, Spyder for Short Range, Akash for Medium range, s400 for Long range and high value target, exact kill rate of Guns are unknown. In press briefing, officials said that these were so effective against drones.

That's very impressive, especially at low cost.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#206

Post by 0x457 » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:51 PM UTC

RenThraysk wrote: post #176

dmkolobov wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you’re probably just gonna reply with “still only need one camera” …but if GPS is jammed, and there’s only one camera per fleet, how exactly are the other drones supposed to navigate towards the spotted targets unless they’re all equipped with cameras?

One camera drone can see if another drone is on target.

lmao what? You want to loiter with a camera drone to guide other drones to target? How would that work if neither drone knows where it is (drones had no GPS lock, it's a fact, not a speculation)?

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#207

Post by aembleton » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:52 PM UTC

hofrogs wrote: post #169

giantrobot wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over cellular modems in the drones with Russian SIM cards. The operation was prepared for months in advance. Getting a bunch of pre-paid SIM cards from the Russian equivalent to 7-11 (which might just be 7-11) was probably the easiest part of the operation.

Stores won't sell a SIM card without the buyer providing valid state ID, and SIM cards are disabled by carriers if they suspect you are using someone else's card and you can't provide an ID for it. This is one of the recent laws. Getting a phone number/data plan that isn't associated with your real identity (and instead registered to someone else, usually a homeless guy somewhere) isn't impossible, but those wouldn't…

Stores might not sell a sim card without state ID, but you can buy eSims without ID from $1.20 with 1GB of data: https://www.esim4travel.com/russia-esim

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#208

Post by gosub100 » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

jasonjayr wrote: post #22

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking the same thing. You don't even need to fully destroy the drone, if you manage to damage the camera sensors or the exposed lithium cell it's game over for the drone.

How close are we to making a system that can have multiple counter measures autonomously deployed? (1) if prop based, launch something to snare the props (2) if reflective, pre-launch something to spray black non-reflective paint at it, and followup with laser (3) if evasive, approach with random manouvers (4) if unknown, launch everything and see what works, and feed it back to the training data ... etc, etc.

I would try a shotgun style subsonic load with an adjustable fin/spoiler system that can be calibrated relative to the range of the target. The projectiles fin would flare out to reduce speed as it approached the target. Then an explosive charge would release a spray of super glue or pancake syrup, or something to gunk up the mechanism or disrupt the airflow on the propeller.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#209

Post by mountainriver » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:55 PM UTC

originalvichy wrote: post #130

If your country is an adversary of China, I would be scared. I've seen videos on YouTube of how the drones from Chinese drone light shows take off and return to their launch areas. They have remarkable accuracy.

We do that in the US as well, it’s just more regulated (for some reason)

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#210

Post by dmkolobov » Tue, Jun 03, 2025, 4:55 PM UTC

RenThraysk wrote: post #204

dmkolobov wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the old “use a single unreliable 2D instrument to coordinate multiple fast-moving projectiles in three dimensional space” approach.

You are just continuing to spout nonsense. Camera drone hovers above target and kamakazi drone intersects the line between camera and target, and drops.

So now the camera is pointed at the target? How is it checking that the other drones are headed in the right direction? And the personnel on the ground? They're just chillin' waiting for those other drones to come intersect with the stationary spotter drone's line of sight?