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German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

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Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#201

Post by tsoukase »

hermitcrab wrote: post #5

Good for Germany, but it is all too rare to see bad corporate behaviour punished like this. Steal £10k from a company, and you will probably go to prison for a long time. Start a company and steal billions from your customers and/or the tax payer, and you will probably get away with it. I believe Iceland was the only country to jail bankers after the 2008 banking disaster. We are still waiting for the British governm…

Auto industry is the material God of Germany. Similar to SW companies in the US. These people have immunity solely because they support the system.

Do you think the US would extradit top level FAANG people if they indirectly harmed some foreign country? No way!

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#202

Post by lysace »

dbg31415 wrote: post #156

Now do Boeing!

During this admin?

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/23/boeing-737-max-crashes-doj.h... (3 days ago)

> Boeing, Justice Department reach deal to avoid prosecution over deadly 737 Max crashes

See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44078413 (15 comments)

It seems that at the very least manslaughter is legal in the US now, provided you pay $1.28M per victim.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#203

Post by Gibbon1 »

anthk wrote: post #182
docsaintly wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant: 窃钩者诛，窃国者侯 qiègōuzhě zhū, qièguózhě hóu He who steals a belt buckle pays with his life; he who steals a state gets to be a feudal lord. Yes, it is a Chinese idiom.

The same in Spanish. Steal a hen, get a harsh sentence. Steal millions, you are now a respectable 'businessman'.

Kill a man you're a murderer. Kill millions and you're a statesman.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#204

Post by achierius »

ferguess_k wrote: post #83
hermitcrab wrote: post #5

Good for Germany, but it is all too rare to see bad corporate behaviour punished like this. Steal £10k from a company, and you will probably go to prison for a long time. Start a company and steal billions from your customers and/or the tax payer, and you will probably get away with it. I believe Iceland was the only country to jail bankers after the 2008 banking disaster. We are still waiting for the British governm…

窃(Steal)钩(hook)者(people)诛(gets a death sentence) 窃(Steal)国(country)者(people)侯(gets to be the king)

"He who steals from one citizen,” said Cato, “ends his days in fetters and chains; but he who steals from all ends them in purple and gold.”

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#205

Post by [deleted] »

LunaSea wrote: post #42
izacus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, whether VW as a German company is now going to end up being beaten by US competitors which could do even more nasty stuff unpunished.

Germany is free to prove that these companies are cheating as well.

[deleted]

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#206

Post by Brian_K_White »

echelon wrote: post #170
ferguess_k wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

窃(Steal)钩(hook)者(people)诛(gets a death sentence) 窃(Steal)国(country)者(people)侯(gets to be the king)

This is a remarkably good idiom that rings true. Similar to Paul Getty's quote, "If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." But in this case, it cuts much deeper and darker.

I think that's a pretty different concept being expressed by that one.

The others are about getting away with something by just making the crime big enough that it's evaluated and handled in a totally different arena.

The bank can still destroy the rest of your life, so you didn't get away with anything (setting aside bankrupcy and how you can actually usually start over, and that may or may not be all that terrible for you).

The banking one is just saying that the bank can not get 100 million from you no matter what they do, because it simply doesn't exist. In that case, everyone still agrees you still owe it and they are entitled to it. You didn't gain anything by going big enough. And it's not really true that it's the banks problem instead of yours. The bank has a problem, but you still also have a problem.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#207

Post by jajko »

bluGill wrote: post #98
aeyes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately the CEO is responsible. To me it doesn't even matter if the CEO knows about it or not, if not the company has poor governance which is the CEOs full responsibility. Wirecard CEO has been arrested since 2020, will probably sit for another 10 years.

The question is should the CEO have know. A CEO that trys to set a culture of doing the right thing, with training on what the right thing is, and other such things can still be deceived by someone low level who cheats. It is possible for one person to cover their tracks for a long time if they are trying to cheat. It can be years to track down who is doing the immoral thing even after you catch something is wrong. T…

Those golden parachutes and lavish lifestyle comes with a cost. That cost is responsibility and risks it brings.

Whether he knew or nit is a matter for courst, but in any case he is responsible too. Punish crooks harsh and visibly, reward honesty and good engineering massively and also visibly and company as a whole will act accordingly. We dont talk about a single guy hacking some firmware build, but a well known company culture.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#208

Post by Gibbon1 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #64
lucianbr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been some years since VW had to give up cheating on emission tests. Were they beaten by US competitors during this time? I have not read any news about it.

They have kind of abandoned diesel engines, which the whole scandal was based around. It became clear that it would be impossible to create diesel engines which would comply with enviromental standards, which is a shame since they are more efficient and it is consumers who are losing out. They are still one of the main automotive conglomerations today. If anything American car companies are losing the market in Europ…

EV's and Hybrids get better mileage and pollute less.

It's funny how the Clinton admin forced a golden egg into GM's hands (the EV1) and GM tossed it away in disgust when Bush was elected.

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#209

Post by cjbenedikt »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #206
echelon wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a remarkably good idiom that rings true. Similar to Paul Getty's quote, "If you owe the bank $100, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." But in this case, it cuts much deeper and darker.

I think that's a pretty different concept being expressed by that one. The others are about getting away with something by just making the crime big enough that it's evaluated and handled in a totally different arena. The bank can still destroy the rest of your life, so you didn't get away with anything (setting aside bankrupcy and how you can actually usually start over, and that may or may not be all that terrible…

"...setting aside bankrupcy and how you can actually usually start over, and that may or may not be all that terrible for you..." You might even be elected president...:-p

Re: German court sends VW execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal

#210

Post by Brian_K_White »

tyre wrote: post #149
jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually it happens only if you steal from investors. Stealing from consumers is fine.

Matt Levine: “I find all of this so weird because of how it elevates finance. [Various cases] imply that we are not entitled to be protected from pollution as citizens, or as humans. [Another] implies that we are not entitled to be told the truth as citizens. (Which: is true!) Rather, in each case, we are only entitled to be protected from lies as shareholders. The great harm of pollution, or of political dishonesty,…

Similarly Elizabeth Holmes (In jail, but not for providing bad medical services.)
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