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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#201

Post by gloosx »

kkarakk wrote: post #178
gloosx wrote: post #125

>>models create, empowering artists to bring their creative vision Interesting logic the new era brings: something else creates, and you only "bring your vision to life", but what it means is left for readers questioning, your "vision" here is your text prompt? Were at a crossroads where the tools are powerful enough to make the process optional. That raises uncomfortable questions: if you don’t have to create anymor…

we can see what happened to opera/theater/hand drawn art as conclusive answer. humans move on to the newer more easier to create/consume thing in general (digital music/tv/digital art) and a small percentage of people treat the older mode of creation as high art coz it's more difficult and expensive to learn / implement.

Calling cinema a "new form" of theatre is quite a simplification. It was certainly inspired by theatre, but the two differ in almost every aspect: medium, communication language, cultural role, and audience dynamics. Most people throughout history probably never experienced theatre or opera – so they didn’t move from them to cinema; rather, cinema emerged as a more accessible and reproducible medium for those.

Theatre and opera are regarded as high art because they are performed live in front of an audience every time, demanding presence, skill, and immediacy – unlike cinema, which relies on a recorded and edited performance.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#202

Post by BosunoB »

itissid wrote: post #166

Who is doing all the work of making physical agents that can behave as good as a UBI generator? Something that can not just create videos, but go get groceries(hell grow my food), help a construction worker lay down tiling, help a nurse fetch supplies. https://www.figure.ai/ does not exist yet, at least not for the masses. Why are Meta and Google just building the next coder and not the next robot? Its because those…

There are companies working on this, but my understanding is that the training data is more challenging to get because it involves reinforcement learning in physical space.

In the forecast of the AI-2027 guys, robotics come after they've already created superintelligent AI, largely just because it's easier to create the relevant data for thinking than for moving in physical space.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#203

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

ahtihn wrote: post #185
duped wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't people be happy that more individuals would be soon able to create freely in a more accessible way? The gates are wide open for those that want to put in effort to learn. What AI is doing to creative professionals is putting them out of a job by people who are cheap and lazy. Art is not inaccessible. It's never been cheaper and easier to make art than today even without AI. > Personally I can't wait to se…

> The gates are wide open for those that want to put in effort to learn. Why is effort a requirement? Why should being an artist be a viable job? Would you be against technology that makes medical doctors obsolete?

> Why is effort a requirement?

That's how human brains work. People have an intrinsic need to sort, build hierarchies and prioritize. Effort spent is one of viable heuristics for these processes.

> Why should being an artist be a viable job?

Art itself has great value, if it weren't, museums, theaters and live shows wouldn't exist.

> Would you be against technology that makes medical doctors obsolete?

The analogy doesn't work. The results of a medical process is a [more] healthy person. The result doesn't have any links to the one performing it. Result of an artistic creative process is an art piece, and art is tied to its creator by definition.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#204

Post by sidibe »

strongpigeon wrote: post #137
vunderba wrote: post #22

After doing some testing, Imagen 4 doesn't score any higher than Imagen 3 on my comparison chart, approximately ~60% prompt adherence accuracy. https://genai-showdown.specr.net

How can you tell you're using Imagen 4 and not Imagen 3? Gemini seems unable to tell me which model it's using. Are you using Vertex AI?

Well they've labelled it 3/4 so I'm guessing they can't but you can use 4 it in whisk

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#205

Post by teitoklien »

ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #193
teitoklien wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I make songs daily Sorry for being blunt, but you do not. You receive some music matching your request from a service offered by an entity which aims to control as much of content creation and distribution as possible, up to total monopolization. > I’m not a musician... Now I can with $10-$15 / month. If you want to create music, do it, it doesn't require much money. If you just want to listen, there's literally th…

No amigo, no artist out there made a japanese song on my anime obsessed schoolteacher friend and his life.

When he received that song from me, he was super excited for next 3-5 days and still listens to it and flexes them to their friends.

Same thing happened with a lot of my other friends and me too, I have an apple shortcut script that generates songs for me daily based on my routine for that day pulled from todoist.com

I still listen to and pay for others music and songs, but this experience with AI is entirely different.

What I pay for is not avoiding effort of finding what suits me but creating what suits me.

> You receive some music matching your request from a service offered by an entity which aims to control as much of content creation and distribution as possible, up to total monopolization.

What I receive is a high fidelity song made from prompts that i’m given full ownership of , when pooled at scale between all users allows people to make their own song generators with GPUs.

Its very nature is the opposite of monopoly. I’d love to hear how you think the big 3 corps (Universal, Sony, etc) who own all the music almost globally are not a monopoly ? Never had an experience where your spotify or apple music streaming albums disappear randomly due to those big 3 corps ?

My friend’s song of himself will never disappear that mp3 file he can store on a pen drive, load ig anywhere, gift to anyone. How is that the “monopoly” ?

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#206

Post by andoando »

gamblor956 wrote: post #197
andoando wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true. Is a film director not a creative? You could come up with your own story and direct the AI to generate it for you.

In your example, the "come up with your own story" part is the creative part. But you're not "directing" the AI to generate it for you. You're just giving it a command. You're selecting from the results it outputs, but you're not controlling the output. A film director is a creative. Ultimately, they are in charge of "visualizing" a screenplay": the setting, the the design of the set or the utilization of real locati…

So 1. being able to bring your own story come to life automatically is cool in itself, and would result in a lot of creative media that is not possible now. Do you know how many people have their own stories, plays, etc that are dying to find someone rich enough to get them published?

2. Using AI can be can be an iterative process. Generate this scene, make this look like that, make it brighter colors, remove this, add this, etc. That's all carefully crafting the output. Now generate this second scene, make the transition this way, etc. I don't see how that's at all different from a director giving their commands to workers, except now you actually have more creative control (given AI gets good enough)

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#207

Post by Clamchop »

MattGrommes wrote: post #160
jampa wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first two paragraphs of your argument could be used to discuss whether Photography (Camera is doing most of the work) or Digital Drawing (Photoshop is doing most of the work) are art. Both things which were dismissed as not art at first but are widely accepted as an art medium nowadays.

I see this comparison to a camera a lot but I don't think it works (not that you're saying this, I'm just contributing). I'm not an expert but to me the camera is doing very little of the work involved in taking an artistic picture. The photographer chooses which camera to use to get a certain effect, which lenses, the framing, etc. All the camera is doing recording the output of what the person is specifying.

Photography mostly eliminated the once-indispensable portrait artist, among other formerly-dependable lines of work.

There's a line to be drawn somewhere between artist and craftsperson. Creating beautiful things to a brief has always been a teachable skill, and now we're teaching it to machines. And, we've long sought to mass-produce beautiful things anyway. Think textiles, pottery, printmaking, architectural adornments.

Can AI replace an artist? Or is it just a new tool that can be used, as photography was, for either efficiency _or_ novel artistic expression?

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#208

Post by ugh123 »

nrjames wrote: post #70

This is technically impressive and I commend the team that brought it to life. It makes me sad, though. I wish we were pushing AI more to automate non-creative work and not burying the creatives among us in a pile of AI generated content.

This kind of tech will open up filmmaking to a much wider base of creative talent.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#209

Post by blargey »

jampa wrote: post #145
gamblor956 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing creative in having someone or something else doing the work for you. "Creating" with an AI is like an executive "inventing" the work actually done by their team of researchers. A team owner "winning" a game played by the their team. That being said, AI output is very useful for brainstorming and exploring a creative space. The problem is when the brainstorming material is used for production.

The first two paragraphs of your argument could be used to discuss whether Photography (Camera is doing most of the work) or Digital Drawing (Photoshop is doing most of the work) are art. Both things which were dismissed as not art at first but are widely accepted as an art medium nowadays.

Everyone has a phone camera, and takes photos, but not everyone is a photographer, and even photographers wouldn’t proclaim all their photos “art”.

AI cannot “democratize art” any more than the camera did, until the day it starts teaching artistry to its users.

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