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“Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

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Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#201

Post by hedora »

vineyardmike wrote: post #77
suddenexample wrote: post #34

A question for Googlers who may be responsible/adjacent - what is the intended function of this warning? It seems to be attempting to filter out low quality apps, but instead seems to be killing any attempt to change the status quo. If the app has fewer users than competing apps, the message Google is sending is "we don't need any new apps that do similar things to existing apps" and "if you're a small app, don't eve…

> we don't need any new apps that do similar things to existing apps" I’m not a “Googler who may be responsible”, but my understanding is that Apple does this too… and Google App Store has a reputation for being lower quality. I assume it’s because unoriginal apps at some point are just “polluting” the market and making it harder to find higher quality products. Which is generally what users want. Some things are red…

I don’t get how FDroid can be so much better.

I’ve given up on Android, but when I used it, I always checked FDroid first.

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#202

Post by hedora »

freedomben wrote: post #7
_fat_santa wrote: post #4

Why does it seem like Google is trying to kill Android, or at least their app ecosystem. - They now require a DUNS number to submit an app - You now need 10-15 people to "QA" your app before submitting - Now this. It just seems that Google wants the "major" apps and nothing else.

Indeed, and on the other end they are locking down the OS more and more. Pretty soon I suspect all my reasons for going Android over the years will no longer be valid and we'll just have a choice between overlords rather than have one closed and one open platform.

That boat sailed for me years ago. iOS respects my preferences regarding data sharing, app selection, etc, much more than Android.

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#203

Post by jimmaswell »

izacus wrote: post #183
throwaway494932 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That works if meanwhile Google hasn't decided to increase the target api level requirements [1]. In that case you may not be able to just republish the app, and extensive refactoring may be necessary. Forcing apps using old sdks out of the app store is probably the main reason they do this. [1] https://developer.android.com/google/play/requirements/targe...

That is only really necessary if your app is using old privacy or security problematic APIs. Which is usually the root cause of this complaining - "why do I have to refactor my app so it won't demand access to all private photos and documents anymore?!"

Who actually asked for this? It's been nothing but a pointless nuisance to me as a user. Samsung complains at me if I choose to give an app persistent GPS access, in the rare occasion it even lets me. I want my programs to do as much as possible, not be hamstrung.

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#204

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #118
anilakar wrote: post #57

Our company just got a warning that we have sixty days to release something on Play or have our developer console account closed. The email made it pretty clear that Google wants developers to continuously push new versions to customers. We have no new features nor bug fixes in backlog. There is nothing to update. The only purpose of our software is to control hardware that our company makes. Nobody uses it for fun,…

"The email made it pretty clear that Google wants developers to continuously push new versions to customers." Why. It is not Google's software. Shouldn't that decision be left to the software author.

Being in control of the OS, can Google in some cases force software authors to rewrite software and "release new versions" by changing/adding/removing APIs, etc.

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#205

Post by klysm »

anilakar wrote: post #57

Our company just got a warning that we have sixty days to release something on Play or have our developer console account closed. The email made it pretty clear that Google wants developers to continuously push new versions to customers. We have no new features nor bug fixes in backlog. There is nothing to update. The only purpose of our software is to control hardware that our company makes. Nobody uses it for fun,…

Automate pushing an update every week with no changes other than a bit flipping back and forth or something. If they want to set up stupid shit then they get to get stupid shit

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#206

Post by godelski »

fluidcruft wrote: post #191
godelski wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if we talked about other computers like we talked about phones. It's just so weird - you can only install programs from our approved package manager - if you make any transactions through your program, we'll take a 30% cut - you can't be access those files, you're not root - you got root?! We're going to fucking sue you (yeah, I know about the PS3...) - you can't change these settings - you can't access that…

Rent seekers gonna rent seek.

Scorpions gonna scorpion

But I'm not willing to let that be the answer. It's a thought terminating clique

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#207

Post by fluidcruft »

godelski wrote: post #206
fluidcruft wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent seekers gonna rent seek.

Scorpions gonna scorpion But I'm not willing to let that be the answer. It's a thought terminating clique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...

One man's cliche is another man's razor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_razor

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#208

Post by cosmic_cheese »

jimmaswell wrote: post #203
izacus wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only really necessary if your app is using old privacy or security problematic APIs. Which is usually the root cause of this complaining - "why do I have to refactor my app so it won't demand access to all private photos and documents anymore?!"

Who actually asked for this? It's been nothing but a pointless nuisance to me as a user. Samsung complains at me if I choose to give an app persistent GPS access, in the rare occasion it even lets me. I want my programs to do as much as possible, not be hamstrung.

There’s a few apps where I want to grant broad permissions from the outset, but generally that’s not what I want, especially when it comes to photos, contacts, etc. In most cases there’s no benefit whatsoever to granting e.g. access to my entire photo library and it seriously irritates me to see apps insist on said access.

In fact if I had my way, I’d never see a prompt and permissions would default to “only selected” (collections) and “no access” (location, wifi, etc), with the handful of exceptions having access granted manually.

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#209

Post by cosmic_cheese »

godelski wrote: post #100
anilakar wrote: post #57

Our company just got a warning that we have sixty days to release something on Play or have our developer console account closed. The email made it pretty clear that Google wants developers to continuously push new versions to customers. We have no new features nor bug fixes in backlog. There is nothing to update. The only purpose of our software is to control hardware that our company makes. Nobody uses it for fun,…

Imagine if we talked about other computers like we talked about phones. It's just so weird - you can only install programs from our approved package manager - if you make any transactions through your program, we'll take a 30% cut - you can't be access those files, you're not root - you got root?! We're going to fucking sue you (yeah, I know about the PS3...) - you can't change these settings - you can't access that…

On one hand much of this is valid, but on the other many of the conveniences that desktop devs are accustomed to are increasingly questionable and ill-suited for the modern era.

Perhaps the most problematic aspect is the way that PC apps have traditionally been granted access to any resource at any time without question, with the largest obstacle being the occasional need for an admin password or UAC prompt. It’s been a chronic point of abuse by third party developers, with some of the giants like Adobe being among the worst (using a third party uninstaller after installing Creative Cloud is like shining a backlight in a hotel room). Third party programs must be treated as somewhat adversarial in order to make sure that the user maintains control and knows exactly what the software they’re using is doing.

So yes, mobile operating systems have been abusive, but at the same time desktop operating systems have been negligent and expanding third party app carte blanche to mobile apps is not the way forward.

Re: “Fewer Users” Warning Hurting Specialized and New Apps

#210

Post by mminer237 »

llm_nerd wrote: post #113
anilakar wrote: post #57

Our company just got a warning that we have sixty days to release something on Play or have our developer console account closed. The email made it pretty clear that Google wants developers to continuously push new versions to customers. We have no new features nor bug fixes in backlog. There is nothing to update. The only purpose of our software is to control hardware that our company makes. Nobody uses it for fun,…

I've had a Google developer console/play account for a decade+. Recently had to send some proof of identity stuff in their anti-spam thing -- which I did because who knows one day I might care about the account -- but I haven't released anything there in eight years. No threats of closing my account. Did they instead just warn that they would unpublish the app? Google does have minimum API levels that they slowly mov…

No, I got the same message. It was very clear that I had 60 days to publish a new app or an update or my entire developer account would be closed and I would have to apply and pay all over again.

https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

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