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Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
201–210 of 232 posts
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cannot modify irreversibly though right? Something like a Nest or whatever is easy to return to the original state when you leave.
Depends where you are. Where I live it's no modification. If it's hard-wired the tenant can't touch it. Though in reality many landlords don't mind as long as you know what you're doing and return it to how it was. Just a problem if you get a jerk landlord.
Except how does the landlord know? Surprise inspections? And what are the penalties? This should all be spelled out in the lease contract.
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've read that it's always more efficient to turn heating off when you're not home and then turn it back on when you return. Is the reason for it being on 22-24 hours here that it takes a very long time to get back to the desired temperature, meaning you'd actually be cold for quite a while as it returned to the desired temperature?
> I've read that it's always more efficient to turn heating off when you're not home and then turn it back on when you return. 50 years ago this was _always_ the case, but condensing boilers and especially heat pumps muddy the waters a little. Condensing boilers can be close to 100% efficient (vs ~70-80% for ye olde gas boilers), but generally only at a fairly specific operating temperature, which may be lower than y…
> Condensing boilers can be close to 100% efficient (vs ~70-80% for ye olde gas boilers)
So you save up to 30% of the gas while heating your home nearly 24 hours a day, instead of saving 67% of the gas by using it only for the ~8 hours that you're home and not under a duvet?
The math might work out for those who work from home, but I mean in the standard case with an hour's commute (round-trip), an 8-hour work day, and a 30-minute lunch break (9.5h gone, 7h sleep -> 7.5h during which the apartment should be warm if you run no errands). Of course, you'd schedule it to start before you get home, but it can also stop a bit before going to bed
I've been hearing both arguments for years and while it's exceedingly convenient to believe the condensing boiler story and just heat 24/7 to always come home in luxurious warmth, nobody ever does the math. You're one of the few people who even mention what the alleged savings are in the first place
We have a condensing boiler, chosen by my landlord so I'm no expert but I looked into it because we pay the bills in the end. The device's manual lists the efficiency as 88% ƞ4 at 60°C return water temperature, called high-temperature operation, and 98% ƞ4 at 30°C return temperature. It also gets tested yearly by a professional (Schornsteinfeger I think they call it here) and produces two efficiency measurements. Just looked up the record again: the mechanic handwrote "min" and "max" with them, so I presume that the "max" one is where the system operates at maximum capacity (minimum efficiency, then?), where the efficiency is 98%. At the "min" setting, the efficiency is shown as 106% (iirc some older measurement techniques don't include the condensation efficiency gain in the percentage, that's how it goes above 100%, or so I read when I looked it up a few years ago). For that difference, please correct me if I'm overlooking something but using a low heat for 24h/day makes no mathematical sense to me
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Possessing the tools that could be used to commit a crime is not necessarily a crime in and of itself! While I do agree 1000%, I also want people to be careful with this thinking since I have gotten in some minor trouble in the past. Always assume the authority questioning you can and will create whatever narrative they wish, that it will be accepted, and that your own reasoning will likely be used against you. I w…
> "Always assume the authority questioning you can and will create whatever narrative they wish, that it will be accepted, and that your own reasoning will likely be used against you." And with that, I give you: Don't Talk To the Police: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
Would really like GP's thoughts on this. Sounds like they were questioned but not indited, the thing which the cop in that video denies ever happened. It also depends on the country. Watching police shows in NL, everybody talks and it often really does matter what they say, e.g. for the police to believe whether that bicycle is theirs, or whether they get a contact prohibition to their ex (where someone has to make the decision whether their request is reasonable), etc.
Do heed what's mentioned in the video, it's mostly true I presume and probably doubly so for their country of origin, but also consider there exists a balance
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah this is school knowledge of thermodynamics: the smaller the delta the more efficient the heat pump. For human comfort look at the iso7730. Also the system is self regulatory with such low temps.
Heat pumps and furnaces behave very differently here. For a furnace you’re talking fractions of a percent difference in efficiency across a wide temperature range so by far the most critical issue is total heat losses to the outside. A heat pump’s efficiency is far more variable making total losses to the outside less important.
First, sooner or later you have to replace your furnace with a heat pump. Second, modern furnaceses are condensing. Return temp should be as low as possible maximise condensing.
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not true, I can buy a Chinese 4kw Model for 650€ which can heat till -15degree. Doubt that you can save much.
Go price air conditioners in the uae or Kuwait or similar, the cooling only models are very much a thing that exists on the market.
But not in Europe. It is only one 4 way valve extra to enable heating.
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is, if your landlord ever comes around for inspection, or the bloody thing breaks down due to your installation attempt, you can be held liable up to and including getting evicted.
Where can you get evicted for something like that? The worst case is that they would sue your insurance for damages, or you'd have to pay them out of pocket.
Probably half of the US, but messing around with stuff like boilers can and will lead to issues even here in Germany.
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
Heat pumps and furnaces behave very differently here. For a furnace you’re talking fractions of a percent difference in efficiency across a wide temperature range so by far the most critical issue is total heat losses to the outside. A heat pump’s efficiency is far more variable making total losses to the outside less important.
First, sooner or later you have to replace your furnace with a heat pump. Second, modern furnaceses are condensing. Return temp should be as low as possible maximise condensing.
We agree return temps should be lower, but to determine how critical this is you need to out numbers on that. In steady state operation at maximum load a difference in return temperatures of 15f is ~1% efficiency. But steady state at maximum load is an extreme situation the average return temperature is well below that theoretical maximum thus an even wider difference is needed for a seasonal difference of 1%.
Redundancy is critical in areas that get really cold. That may eventually mean turning to hydrogen, but a backup gas furnace for a well insulated home really isn’t a major CO2 contributor. More relevant to the discussion it further reduces the impact of minor changes in efficiency or comfort.
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've read that it's always more efficient to turn heating off when you're not home and then turn it back on when you return. 50 years ago this was _always_ the case, but condensing boilers and especially heat pumps muddy the waters a little. Condensing boilers can be close to 100% efficient (vs ~70-80% for ye olde gas boilers), but generally only at a fairly specific operating temperature, which may be lower than y…
> Condensing boilers can be close to 100% efficient (vs ~70-80% for ye olde gas boilers) So you save up to 30% of the gas while heating your home nearly 24 hours a day, instead of saving 67% of the gas by using it only for the ~8 hours that you're home and not under a duvet? The math might work out for those who work from home, but I mean in the standard case with an hour's commute (round-trip), an 8-hour work day, a…
Yeah, this only works with quite well-insulated houses, where they're very little heat loss (the system will then spend most of its time off _anyway_, as it has reached desired temperature).
Re: Attacking My Landlord's Boiler
#210We've moved to an new apartment (house) and we had to do a full renovation. It doesn't have modern insulation and I calculated that for the time being the ROI on insulation isn't worth it. It's a multi-floor semi-detached house and I wanted the best comfort and the most economical heating possible. In particular: stable and individually adjustable temperatures for bedrooms and living rooms; underfloor heating in some…
For every John Siegenthaler and Dan Holohan, there are thousands of mechanical engineers and tens of thousands of plumbers who are happier to slap in a $20K 4-hour boiler retrofit. There’s not enough extra money in catering to the 0.1% of homeowners who care about the details.
A lot of this is so easy with AI now. Just need some confidence and patience to work with AI lol.