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FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

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Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#201

Post by albert_e »

paxys wrote: post #40

The latest dark pattern in all these apps is that they will mess up your order/ride and then "refund" you in the form of account credit. There's no way to actually get your money back. Trying to contact support results in an endless loop of help screens and chatbots. If you are able to figure out the magic combination of options that will get you to a support agent they will say "sure we will refund your money" but t…

Same experience in India.

Additionally for past year or so they have always consistently charged me higher than what they quote originally.

I jump through the hoops to get a "refund" of the difference through automated support workflow. Ofcourse never real money -- just a credit applied to account or so they say.

That credit can never be seen or verified because wallet screen is always down for maintenance or whatever.

There is no email trail or anything else where you can prove you are owed an x amount of credit.

That credit never gets applied to a future ride.

Excellent "growth hack" I guess.

I have done screen recordings of this support workflow shenanigans a few times. Never had the energy to fight it till closure. I know the kind of duplicitous run around the support is going to give me the first five times I raise this.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#202

Post by jowea »

paxys wrote: post #166
NoTeslaThrow wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard a lot of people speak about dynamic pricing, but I have yet to hear any benefit to the consumer or society as a whole. Basically any possible pitch for it is worse in every way than simple downward wealth redistribution.

Going by pure economic theory "dynamic pricing" actually benefits both buyers and sellers in a marketplace. There are plenty of cases where it makes sense – lunch menus at restaurants, grocery store coupons, retail bargain bins, dollar menus, happy hour deals, senior/youth/student discounts, even surge pricing in Uber & Lyft. Of course like with every aspect of economics how something is implemented matters a lot mor…

Wouldn't perfect individualised dynamic pricing mean that the seller (Uber in this case) would get to capture the entire consumer surplus? Is that good?

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#203

Post by dheera »

csharpminor wrote: post #80
teeray wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst thing is that you can't even do a chargeback, otherwise you get banned. There is no recourse for the consumer. If this is their solution for fighting chargebacks, they should get banned from accepting Visa / MC / AMEX.

Another sketchy practice: if you get Uber Cash through a card like Amex, when you go to use it the price for the ride is automatically $15-$20 more than someone who doesn’t have an Uber Cash balance. I’ve checked this side by side with colleagues at the airport getting ride quotes to the same hotel. When you have Uber Cash they will quote you more. You can find numerous Reddit threads on the topic as well. This feels…

I remember the days when Uber prices from SF to anywhere on the peninsula would suddenly spike exactly a minute or two after each Caltrain departed. If you just missed the train you paid a lot more.

And then the many times that Lyft violated the triangle inequality in pricing: Ride from A->B followed by a ride from B->C was often cheaper than a direct ride from A->C, if you knew how to pick B correctly. I once confused the hell out of a driver when I got out and got back in the same car at some nondescript spot.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#204

Post by cammikebrown »

mmmmmbop wrote: post #184
nradov wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still can't fathom why so many customers voluntarily subject themselves to abuse by food delivery services. Overpay for cold, late food (which the driver might have already sampled). I mean I can sort of understand the use case for customers who are stuck at home due to illness or something. But I've seen plenty of young people in good health waste scarce funds on UberEats and similar services. Why? When I want tak…

Ordering my go-to meal at this restaurant down the block with Grubhub+ has $0 delivery fee and $1 "service fee". It takes roughly 4 minutes to go get it myself, assuming there's no line. $1 for 4 minutes is $15 an hour -- I value my time more than that. It's always here within 10-15 minutes. It's never been cold, and the bags are stapled shut, so I don't think the meals have ever been sampled. Plus it feels nice to b…

[flagged]

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#205

Post by DrillShopper »

paxys wrote: post #40

The latest dark pattern in all these apps is that they will mess up your order/ride and then "refund" you in the form of account credit. There's no way to actually get your money back. Trying to contact support results in an endless loop of help screens and chatbots. If you are able to figure out the magic combination of options that will get you to a support agent they will say "sure we will refund your money" but t…

> If you are able to figure out the magic combination of options that will get you to a support agent they will say "sure we will refund your money" but that is still only going to your app account.

This is exactly what chargebacks are for

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#206

Post by [deleted] »

cammikebrown wrote: post #204
mmmmmbop wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ordering my go-to meal at this restaurant down the block with Grubhub+ has $0 delivery fee and $1 "service fee". It takes roughly 4 minutes to go get it myself, assuming there's no line. $1 for 4 minutes is $15 an hour -- I value my time more than that. It's always here within 10-15 minutes. It's never been cold, and the bags are stapled shut, so I don't think the meals have ever been sampled. Plus it feels nice to b…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#207

Post by pbh101 »

jowea wrote: post #202
paxys wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going by pure economic theory "dynamic pricing" actually benefits both buyers and sellers in a marketplace. There are plenty of cases where it makes sense – lunch menus at restaurants, grocery store coupons, retail bargain bins, dollar menus, happy hour deals, senior/youth/student discounts, even surge pricing in Uber & Lyft. Of course like with every aspect of economics how something is implemented matters a lot mor…

Wouldn't perfect individualised dynamic pricing mean that the seller (Uber in this case) would get to capture the entire consumer surplus? Is that good?

Yes but also that some people would be getting a service that they otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford. But there’s little/no incentive for a pure seller to do that, although for a marketplace like Uber there is more possibility for that, in order to maintain liquidity on the other side of the transaction. I listened to an interview where Uber CEO Dara K note there is always an incentive pool, and based on the market it is either riders or drivers who are getting the incentive money at any given time.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#209

Post by dtnewman »

paxys wrote: post #189
vkou wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's Uber going to do to VISA if VISA honors the chargeback? Not accept VISA? Your card provider needs to keep you happy far more than your card provider needs to keep Uber happy.

Going by that theory why doesn't Visa just jack up their prices by 10x? After all what are merchants going to do, not accept Visa? Turns out yes, that's exactly what they will do. Look at the number of business that don't take Amex for example for the same reason. Large companies especially have enough leverage to negotiate their own deals with credit card operators, like Costco does with Visa.

Costco is a bit different. If I don't have a Visa, i can pay with cash, personal check, or debit card. Sure, I'd prefer to pay with credit card, but it's not a huge deal for me to use a debit card there.

With Uber, there simply isn't an alternative. If they don't accept Visa then i can't use a credit card (or most debit cards, since those go through the visa network too) and there isn't a reasonable way for me to pay at all.

Re: FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and cancellation practices

#210

Post by dghlsakjg »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #154
dghlsakjg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it becomes a systemic problem, the CC companies will absolutely drop merchants or entire industries. CC companies, especially in the states, almost always favor the cardholder over the merchant.

FWIW, "CC companies" are banks. Visa/MasterCard/Discover/etc are little more than clearing houses. Banks serve as both issuers (to the consumer) and processors (to the merchant), often times both.

You are drastically underestimating the value and control that the processor networks bring.

Wells Fargo might underwrite the credit on my credit card, but I would immediately cancel that line of credit if it wasn’t accessible through the Visa network.

The value of a credit card isn’t just the line of credit, it is the near universal and frictionless acceptance as a method of payment.

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