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Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

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Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#201

Post by Tainnor »

ornornor wrote: post #167
ryandrake wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I kind of think a lot of these "Just negotiate, bro" posts are from people who are extremely strong candidates already, like they invented the entire field that the company plays in. Or their PhD thesis was on the exact thing the company is trying to do. For the rest of us, companies can take us or leave us--they aren't going to get into some bidding war for some generic, but strong senior skilled candidate.

That’s scarcity mindset and it decimates your potential for negotiation. If you really truly believe you are a commodity and have nothing at all to offer compared to any other candidate, it’s worth either learning something new to get out of that commodity category and/or look at your experience + knowledge outside your core specialty and market that better. It sounds cliché but there is nobody like you. We all have…

I have things like Haskell, Lean and Prolog on my CV - definitely not things that everyone else has had experience with. Recruiters/HMs generally aren't interested in these kinds of things. Oh but you have worked with Kafka before? Now that puts you ahead, even though so many others have.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#202

Post by dangus »

wrs wrote: post #193
dangus wrote: post #45

> If you must divulge what you’re making Never do that. > Companies will ask about your current compensation at different stages in the process This is not legal in many states, 44% of the US population lives in states where companies asking your salary is not legl. Also, the exploding offer advice is terrible. It won't work. The company will just drop the offer. The actual advice is to decide quickly. I also think t…

The equalization thing may be theoretically true, but in a cumulative 25 years of managing at big companies, I’ve never seen anyone get equalized down , just get slower raises. You’re definitely better off getting overpaid at the beginning. If the offer is 25% high, it might take five years to equalize. And the present-value premium of money isn’t zero anymore!

Slower raises is exactly what I mean.

Perhaps it’s better to start high but I think the impact is moot. In reality every company has a budget range and it’s quite narrow.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#203

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

ghaff wrote: post #153
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats why we need disruption in the books publishing industry

You have it. You can self-publish. Publishers are not actually idiots. By and large, they know what sells.

Self publishing doesn't work because there is no filter for quality or editing.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#205

Post by MarkMarine »

fdsf111 wrote: post #30
MarkMarine wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re good at running your interview process you will have 3-4 at a time. That’s usually where I’m at, I’m interviewing with 12 and get it necked down to 3 or 4 getting to the offer point. I try to stretch out the fast movers and speed up the slow ones but just be honest with recruiters. You’re in the pipeline with other companies and you’re not ready to respond yet. Edit: I saw other comments. I am both “old” an…

> I worked really hard at the practice of interviewing What did you do?

Everything. MIT has open sourced their coursework so I took all of it. I studied, I worked my way through TAOCP, cracking the coding interview (less helpful honestly) and tons of leetcode, I spent 4 years doing this and interviewing to get an idea of the system architecture problems and see how I was progressing.

It worked, after 4 years of studying I landed a SF job and 6 months later I was at Apple, year after that I was at Netflix. You get out of this life what you put into it, and in software it’s all out there for you to get. You don’t need a degree, you don’t have to pass the bar or boards, you just need to prove yourself and be willing to hustle

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#206

Post by mizzao »

Kerrick wrote: post #125
mizzao wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I've read a lot of negotiation books and that's the one that explains all the other ones. Everything else (including this article) is a specific case of the models described in that book.

Also, Never Split The Difference is basically a negotiation-oriented, machismo-tinted version of Nonviolent Communication by Dr. Marshall Rosenberg. I highly recommend both books.

Totally agree! Other similar books using similar models:

Connect, by David Bradford and Carole Robin (on business and personal relationships)

How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk (on parenting)

It's funny how at the end of the day, all interpersonal relationships work the same way, isn't it :-)

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#208

Post by ghaff »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #203
ghaff wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have it. You can self-publish. Publishers are not actually idiots. By and large, they know what sells.

Self publishing doesn't work because there is no filter for quality or editing.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "doesn't work." I've gone through publishers and self-published. They come with different tradeoffs including the complaints about how publishers want a book to flow as described upthread.

Reviews are at least something of a filter.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#209

Post by loxs »

crazygringo wrote: post #180
neilv wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course most married people considering a job offer would discuss it, but that doesn't mean the person making the claim isn't actually just using a delaying tactic. (For example, maybe they already discussed it with their spouse. Or they're going to discuss it in the next hour, but they are saying this when their goal is to effectively delay for a week.) That's just one example of commonplace lying. A lot of people…

That's interesting, I'd never thought of it from the perspective of lying. Thanks. It's funny, because I don't really consider making statements about what I plan to do in the future lies. Like, if I promise someone I'll do something for them or do something important to them and I know I won't, that's a lie. But if I'm just sharing a plan or a personal need... I don't see that as a lie. My plans and needs change by…

While I see where you are coming from... It's not about your personal autonomy, it's about perception. You can be completely honest and people still perceive you as dishonest. In fact, absolute honesty is often perceived as rudeness by skilled negotiators. It took me a long time to grasp this - it's much better to deliver a message than be honest, although being honest AND delivering a message is even better (and the article talks exactly about that). And the message being delivered is often not the bare meaning of the words. Unskilled negotiators often deliver the wrong message (I have been there so many times...), although they used the most precise words while doing it.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#210

Post by 1oooqooq »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #194
1oooqooq wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you a vc level with visibility of salaries in all the company orgs? if not, just stay silent or you will undercut yourself. working class never knows their value, by design.

You can get a lot of data points online though from levelsfyi or blind.

that shows you how cheap people are working for, not how much you are worth to the company. as i said, better not to say any number
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