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The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

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Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#201

Post by toasterlovin »

graeme wrote: post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

I agree with this explanation. There is a sizable contingent of commenters on here who are just extremely negative on everything Apple. I read most of the big Apple threads and they're just overwhelmingly negative toward the company and, honestly, not very thoughtful. I think this has been a developing trend since I've been on HN. Since Gruber is coming at things from a pro-Apple, but nuanced place, I'm not at all surprised that his articles don't do well.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#202

Post by owebmaster »

robenkleene wrote: post #177
owebmaster wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm still having trouble understanding, e.g., why not just make software for the many other platforms that are more aligned with your values? I want to make software to users of smartphones, not to Apple users. There is nothing related to values. Gatekeeping the whole apps ecosystem for their own profit isn't a value anybody should share besides the shareholders.

What's the most sympathetic way to state your position? E.g., I'm struggling with "I'm angry because I can't make money off of iPhone users the way I want to" that just doesn't sound sympathetic to me? Does it to you? (This may just be a conflict of values again, i.e., it sounds entitled to me to want to have equal access to sell your products to all smartphone users, regardless of their choices, that sounds super in…

Why do you think criticizing Apple's predatory strategies comes from hate? Do you hate everything you think it is bad? The sympathetic way is to not take disagreement as hate. Why do you hate people that dislike Apple's way of doing business? Do you hate everybody that dislike things you love?

About Nintendo, I don't develop games nor play them, I couldn't care less about what the market leaders do.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#204

Post by ryandrake »

kccqzy wrote: post #151
sedev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But this means his pro and con opinions don't match typical opinions and this makes him polarizing. And hence some people will flag his articles reflexively or post reflexive dismissals. And Hacker News is heavily weighted to downrank polarizing articles." The downranking is particularly weird since HN's professed norms go extremely hard on something along the lines of "you should take atypical opinions seriously si…

This is not at all weird if you are a HN user with somewhat unpopular opinions. The HN guidelines say flag something if it's egregious. People end up treating flagging as a stronger version of downvotes. My most recent experience being flagged matches this up: I was presenting an argument that Chrome's manifest V3 is a good thing and it was flagged to death. I have no doubt that some users just flag this kind of opin…

People openly admit[1] to abusing the flagging system as their own automated mega-downvote to try to steer[2] the topics towards ones they like and away from ones they don't like.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43150182

2: Their exact word

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#205

Post by rurp »

alsetmusic wrote: post #170
graeme wrote: post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

> But overall the algorithm has kept HN an interesting place. Any good moderation policy has side effects and tradeoffs. I don’t think so. From his follow-up: > My thesis is that the above might once have been an accurate summary of how Hacker News functions, but hasn’t been for years, and that there now exists a cabal of moderator/admins with their thumbs on the scale, and their personal predilections are the primar…

I think a simpler theory for this or any site not ranking high is that a small group of users consistently flag the posts, and flags carry a lot of weight.

We've seen this more blatantly with Elon articles. Almost any submission that paints him in a negative light gets flagged quickly and rarely makes the front page.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#206

Post by [deleted] »

js2 wrote: post #50
jgruber wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How then do you explain DF being #3 from 2007-2021 and #72 from 2021-2025? It’s clearly not blacklisted, but clearly is shitlisted, no?

Have you tried emailing hn@ycombinator.com and asking? From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html How are stories ranked? The basic algorithm divides points by a power of the time since a story was submitted. Comments in threads are ranked the same way. Other factors affecting rank include user flags, anti-abuse software, software which demotes overheated discussions, account or site weighting, and moderator acti…

[deleted]

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#207

Post by js2 »

alsetmusic wrote: post #170
graeme wrote: post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

> But overall the algorithm has kept HN an interesting place. Any good moderation policy has side effects and tradeoffs. I don’t think so. From his follow-up: > My thesis is that the above might once have been an accurate summary of how Hacker News functions, but hasn’t been for years, and that there now exists a cabal of moderator/admins with their thumbs on the scale, and their personal predilections are the primar…

This is paranoid conspiracy-theory stuff. Or it's bait. It's also not falsifiable. Dang can disclaim it but Gruber's next step would just be to write "of course dang would say that."

Frankly, I find this submission and Gruber's followup insufferable and it makes me want to read him less. I say that as a regular reader of his blog who's purchased several of his t-shirts over the years. But really, these posts alone make me no longer a fan.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#208

Post by apple4ever »

graeme wrote: post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

> I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple.

I think you are right. Defending Apple's customer unfriendly policies that forced the EU's hand has turned a lot of people off.

I've been a long time reader of Gruber's, pretty much since he starts. And he's always favored Apple in a way that was reasonable. But the defense of the things Apple does that harms customers is not reasonable, and I think that turned off a lot of his former fans.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#209

Post by apple4ever »

do_not_redeem wrote: post #107

I don't see how a blog post complaining about vote counts is any more interesting than a comment complaining about vote counts. But ok, I'll bite. The articles are not ranked well because they're not interesting or useful. The one DF article I remember seeing recently is "Why Can’t We Screenshot Frames From DRM-Protected Video on Apple Devices?" and it seemed like just a fluffy post without any technical info and wit…

> I don't see how a blog post complaining about vote counts is any more interesting than a comment complaining about vote counts

I see it as highly interesting, because the reason as to why is very fascinating. I know that's a problem around here to discuss, but I never understood why.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#210

Post by apple4ever »

toasterlovin wrote: post #201
graeme wrote: post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

I agree with this explanation. There is a sizable contingent of commenters on here who are just extremely negative on everything Apple. I read most of the big Apple threads and they're just overwhelmingly negative toward the company and, honestly, not very thoughtful. I think this has been a developing trend since I've been on HN. Since Gruber is coming at things from a pro-Apple, but nuanced place, I'm not at all su…

That's possible, but the problem is his take on Apple's customer unfriendly policies is not nuanced at all.
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