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Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

theintercept.com

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Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#201

Post by RVuRnvbM2e »

whatshisface wrote: post #63

Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on: 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often. 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished mo…

In which HN deduces the existence of Institutional Racism from first principles.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#202

Post by j4coh »

kristjansson wrote: post #197
nickff wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not parent or grandparent, but ‘disproportionate’ is different from ‘about the same’; you’re shifting the goalposts.

Direction matters? same or _lower_ frequency of use does not seem like 'shifting the goalposts' on the original claim of disproportionate _incarceration_.

Direction matters, though as the answer to a different question than whether rate of committing crimes is uniform. We are in this sub thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43393070

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#203

Post by [deleted] »

coolspot wrote: post #98
whatshisface wrote: post #63

Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on: 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often. 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished mo…

> Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate Do you have data backing this claim? For example, homicides (that are not a subject for reporting bias) don’t follow a uniform distribution, so I would expect other crimes to also be non-uniform.

[deleted]

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#204

Post by catlikesshrimp »

whatshisface wrote: post #63

Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on: 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often. 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished mo…

My post is maybe a huge straw man that supports your post (parent)

Incoming Leo Sharp. He transported thousands of kilos of drugs in his car for the Sinaloa Cartel during his career. In the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Sharp

Of course, He was white, he was old, he was a United States Veteran. This is just a funny single case.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#205

Post by monkeyfun »

kristjansson wrote: post #198
whatshisface wrote: post #63

Here's an interesting thought about how preferential surveillance can lead to repression even when it's public and not itself acted on: 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). 2. However, people who are being watched will be caught more often. 3. The end result is that people in the "wrong" crowd on average are punished mo…

If there are lost keys everywhere you will actually find some looking under the streetlight. Honest statistical reports may even be written highlighting the frequency of lost-key-findings under streetlights. Credulous readers might begin to suggest that some innate factor of the pooling of their light causes keys to fall exactly within boundaries of their illumination. They might even prefer elected representatives t…

Beautifully written. I especially adore:

> Honest statistical reports may even be written highlighting the frequency of lost-key-findings under streetlights.

The fact you note them as honest is so rhetorically powerful that I'm dead certain to reference this concept/phrasing again in the future.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#206

Post by wahnfrieden »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #159
Aloisius wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate (things like parking violations and music piracy). What? The rates of parking violations and music piracy vary dramatically with age and gender.

I suppose the implication could be that the set petty crimes and code violations, which includes many things, among which are parking violations and music piracy (two things that vary dramatically between demographics), has an equal distribution between all demographics. If parking violations are an old demographic problem, and music piracy are a young demographic problem for example (even though it is assumed that m…

See NYC's recent law changes to legalize jaywalking. I won't pull up the exact citations but there were evenly distributed tendencies to jaywalk yet something like 80-90% of police engagements were with PoC

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#207

Post by smcin »

jeffbee wrote: post #146
sejje wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expansive means large, vast. Not necessarily growing.

Not necessarily. I agree with that. But in American English usage it is distinct from your meaning, which is more aligned with "extensive". The first entry for "expansive" in my usage dictionary is "tending to expand". The main reason to choose the word is to communicate growth.

Better to say "ever-expanding" or "constantly-expanding" and be unambiguous.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#208

Post by bjoli »

imperfect_light wrote: post #93
CalChris wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is surprising. Why are the police monitoring constitutionally protected activity?

Police in my city go to pretty much every protest and take video and photos (with big zoom lens) from the roofs of nearby buildings. It's always surprising to me that more people don't notice.

I am pretty sure this would be a crime in my home country. There are court cases cementing that anything except superficial photography/filming by law enforcement lacks any kind of support in law. There are even laws restricting use of photography in situations when exercising any coercive measures ("tvångsåtgärd").

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#209

Post by exodust »

CalChris wrote: post #186
tptacek wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking down a public street absent some public safety or similar imposition is in fact a Constitutionally protected activity. It is not at all like driving.

No, that is your opinion and not a cite. In fact, the government can regulate your walking with cross walks and traffic lights. Again, why are the police in this case monitoring constitutionally protected activity? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech , or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to a…

You keep repeating "constitutionally protected activity" like it carries more weight the more you repeat. The Intercept article does the same thing.

If we step back and look at what's happening at "pro palestine" protests across the world, much of it is toxic and unwelcome by the wider community. Law enforcement sees the negative energy and responds using passive tracking tools and other measures. They're seeing escalating "decolonizing" associations too, as these groups try to merge with their socialist friends and agendas.

In my country Australia, they've taken the Aboriginal flag and Palestine flag and joined them together, parading them along the street screaming about colonisation. Many contain raised fist graphics and calls for resistance. And you wonder why cops are monitoring?

Barely qualifying as activity worth "protecting" in many cases. In particular, the terror-aligned rhetoric by masked mobs screaming about global intifadas, "resistance by any means necessary" and other stuff unrelated to peace or anything remotely "anti-war". No peace symbols in the crowd but plenty of Hamas flags, is the answer to your question.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#210

Post by kristjansson »

j4coh wrote: post #202
kristjansson wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direction matters? same or _lower_ frequency of use does not seem like 'shifting the goalposts' on the original claim of disproportionate _incarceration_.

Direction matters, though as the answer to a different question than whether rate of committing crimes is uniform. We are in this sub thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43393070

> whether rate of committing crimes is uniform

The above linked data show self-reported cannabis use within +/- 10% over the relevant pre-legalization period (before 2012), if anything with a slight advantage to whites. Drug arrest and incarceration rates vary by much, much more (factors of 2-6 between whites and blacks). Against that, use rates of 15 vs 13ish vs 12.5ish are as good as uniform , esp. on a survey with all the inherent variability therein (even for one as competent and longstanding as the cited work).

So what's the quibble? That the shares aren't exactly equal? Or that there are other demographic cuts with larger differences (and, y'know, aligned carceral disparities)? Or that cannabis use isn't representative of 'petty crime'?

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