Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is apparently already a thing
Which part? Apple is already using the secure enclave for key derivation, PIN/password rate limiting etc. (that’s what it’s for), but my point is that there’s currently a gap in that you can often not really know if you are actually talking to the secure enclave or OS-level malware.
Apple Exclaves
201–210 of 233 posts
Re: Apple Exclaves
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I have to hold the power button to force it off roughly twice a month [...] Hmm... $ last | grep reboot reboot time Sun Feb 16 14:10 reboot time Fri Feb 14 19:40 reboot time Thu Jan 30 09:52 reboot time Fri Dec 13 16:20 reboot time Tue Oct 29 15:32 reboot time Tue Sep 17 12:19 [...] I guess most of these are from macOS updates. I don't think I've used the power button at all in the past year or so? FWIW I'm using a…
> There's an argument that this is a trade-off vs increased IT support cost/workload, but I guess SWEs don't need much support to begin with? IME, it's also about being able to ensure that everyone has access to the same software. I worked at a company that used macOS-specific software for development (I think it was Sketch?) so I had to have a MacBook around, even though I primarily used a Linux desktop for work. An…
Re: Apple Exclaves
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a self-branded hacker so I'll share my motivation: Shit. Works. This is critical. I can focus on my actual task at hand, rather than fiddling with the system. Some perspective: I've been on Debian for 15 years, and I still hold it in very high regard for servers. I'm also an occasional Alpine & OpenBSD user; and Windows for games. I've tried Ubuntu, couldn't stop it from getting in my way. Before you suggest Fedo…
Sorry to be that person but: As someone who's been using NixOS as their daily driver for about three years (after switching to it from Debian) and is currently trying out a MacBook I can tell you that NixOS provides a very different experience than everything else you've mentioned (including macOS). The only other OS I'm aware of that it's comparable to is Guix System which is distantly related to NixOS. NixOS in its…
Re: Apple Exclaves
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a self-branded hacker so I'll share my motivation: Shit. Works. This is critical. I can focus on my actual task at hand, rather than fiddling with the system. Some perspective: I've been on Debian for 15 years, and I still hold it in very high regard for servers. I'm also an occasional Alpine & OpenBSD user; and Windows for games. I've tried Ubuntu, couldn't stop it from getting in my way. Before you suggest Fedo…
Fedora is really good though. I’ve daily driven Windows, MacOS and Linux, Fedora is by far the best developer experience I’ve had so far. But then again, I tend to setup my devbox quite spartan, so that it just works.
Also - I'm done distro-hopping. The problem is KDE/Gnome- KDE is aping Windows (badly), Gnome is aping macOS (also badly). I'd list all of the problems but it would take an essay.
Re: Apple Exclaves
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm one of the most technically-inclined people I know in my personal social circle (not true in my professional circle.) I'd even probably go so far as to label myself a "hacker". But I do care about UX (which Apple nails). I do care about convenience (which Apple nails.) And I do care about privacy (which, and I know I'll get flak for this, Apple _also nails_ when compared to any other device on the market that isn…
There are processes on macOS you can’t signal without disabling SIP.
Windows blocks me from doing things like permanently uninstalling Microsoft Edge.
It’s like the operating system itself is viral in nature.
Re: Apple Exclaves
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a fully self-sovereign life, with no dependence on trust or agents, is an unrealizable ideal I agree with this part, but relying Apple is quite far from self-sovereignty compared to many other practical alternatives: not relying on external clouds, GrapheneOS, Linux. By relying on Apple, you not only pay a tax to essentially bribe them to not attack you (perhaps a viable strategy, not too different from taxes to go…
I’m kind of with you, but tell me.. who “deserves” trust?
Re: Apple Exclaves
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would think the Secure Enclave would handle such things. That said I’m not sure what you or GP mean by “update exclave”. It’s just part of the kernel binary loaded up at system start. Wouldn’t it be updated the same way the rest of the kernel is, probably requiring a restart?
No, because that way a rogue kernel could overwrite the exclave itself and the next reboot would be insecure. You can’t trust a low-trust environment to update a high-trust environment.
Re: Apple Exclaves
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who builds industrial/scientific machines, the consumer oriented devices that Apple makes are completely unusable for me. Locking down completely capable computing devices seems like such a waste. I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner. I'm staying the hell away from this ecosystem. Not sure why many so-called "hackers" are so enthusia…
Let's step back for a moment and think about this example: Do I, a highly technical person, want a machine that has been made in to an appliance, where I have very little control over what's going on in the background, where I have to trust one of the largest companies on the planet to Do The Right Thing™? Well, I know I don't want to run an OS like Windows where the end user is treated with contempt and distain, whe…
Yes using a VM means taking a performance hit. But with the latest Apple machines, and for what I do in the VMs, I haven't experienced any lack of performance that annoys me.
One example for what I do is to run double Wireguard tunnels. In MacOS it has been nigh impossibly to get working (and esp not reliably). But works easily in a Linux VM. With this I can proxy through the VM to access remote resources from applications in MacOS.
I'm using UTM btw: https://mac.getutm.app/
Re: Apple Exclaves
#209I see exclaves as a significant but intermediate step. Apple is making XNU less of a liability, but they're still playing defense instead of fully embracing a microkernel architecture. If I had to bet, exclaves will be a bridge to something bigger, either a more modular OS (like Fuchsia) or a CHERI-inspired security model where memory safety is enforced at the hardware level. Apple is leading the pack in consumer OS…