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The Demoralization is just Beginning

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Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#201

Post by matwood »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #179
kawaiikouhai wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I had this exact thought experiment of "What if America were no longer Hegemon". So, I looked at other historic examples. The British, Dutch, and Spanish. (You can add German/Austrian and the French, close contenders). They're all still very well-off!

What you're missing is the role the U.S. has historically played in preserving and protecting democracy in the world and, particularly, Europe. If America was suddenly no longer a hegemon, it would be qualitatively different. There are other hegemons in the world that would step into the void left by the U.S., and it would be their influence that would be felt most the world over, including by the countries you named…

Exactly. People act like if the US steps back there will suddenly be peace and everyone will get along. What will happen is someone else will step into the US position or multiple someone’s will fight for that position. Neither are probably good for the US or the world.

Another problem (which Trump is idiotically pushing) is for everyone else to grow their military. Do we really think the world is safer with more countries having larger militaries that are an election or coup away from no longer being allies?

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#202

Post by ks2048 »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #64
zzzeek wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seemed like a good article until he went into "back the dollar on gold" and revealed he was a total crackpot, sad

For me it was “Socialism Bad”

Especially since the core of the article is China is surpassing the US.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#203

Post by l0ng1nu5 »

ryandamm wrote: post #11

I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. -there is more to an economy than manufacturing. Using manufacturing metrics to rate an economy is like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run: in some contexts correlated with “winning” but in others it’s not. -gold is not a good currency or basis for monetary policy. -these ideas only sound self consistent withou…

> I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things.

Keynesian economists and now mmt advocates are the reason that most of the productivity gains of the last hundred years have ended up in the hands of a few hundred people while most struggle.

I'd say it's high time to stop listening to these people who are nothing more than useful idiots of the elites.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#204

Post by Dracophoenix »

rayiner wrote: post #109
rat87 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India despite flaws is a democracy same as the US. It's a very different country then China. Plenty of immigrants from tyrannical countries are as if not more committed to democracy as those born here And just because someone was born in China or India it doesn't make them any less American then someone born in Iowa. Their children might be born in Iowa

Democracy isn't created by intentions or "commitment," but rather the culture of the people, their attitudes, and mental processes. An Iowan born in Iowa to Iowan parents who were born to Iowan parents is steeped from birth in a culture that is very different from someone born in India or China--or even the American-born children of Indians and Chinese immigrants. Immigrants may become legally American overnight, but…

> If you took 1,000 people like my wife and put them on an island, you'd recreate America--including the parts of America I find perplexing and frustrating. I'm not persuaded that if you took 1,000 people like me and put them on an island you'd recreate America.

That depends on the constituents of your sample. I doubt a city girl from New York and a farm boy from East Tennessee would have the same approach to life in this hypothetical thousand-person colony. They'll likely work and trade together as needed, but they would otherwise form and primarily associate with their own sociopolitical milieu, thus forming cultural enclaves.

In short, I don't think you could really create another USA without the historical happenstances, upheavals, and transformations that changed country from a collection of colonies primarily divided on religious grounds to a unified secular republic.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#205

Post by matwood »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #136
rayiner wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy isn't created by intentions or "commitment," but rather the culture of the people, their attitudes, and mental processes. An Iowan born in Iowa to Iowan parents who were born to Iowan parents is steeped from birth in a culture that is very different from someone born in India or China--or even the American-born children of Indians and Chinese immigrants. Immigrants may become legally American overnight, but…

after jan6 we can pretty much put all asian democracies (minus pakistan) above the US in terms of democracy. SK recently had a similar coup-lite situation, not tolerated there. accepting loss is a core tenet of democracy

“Americans have had democracy for so long they now take it for granted.” - an EU friend of mine.

The peaceful transfer of power is not common in human history. It’s a miracle it’s gone on as long as it has in the US.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#207

Post by monero-xmr »

lxgr wrote: post #83
jazzyjackson wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they were rebutting that, it's just that Bitcoin supply is only capped if you consider it the one true currency, but there is no cap on the supply of forks that perform identical function, only difference being adoption. It's like you could take the entire gold supply and put it through a Star Trek replicator, but now you have the job of convincing the world that your vault is full of gold too

But even in a world of only Bitcoin and no way to make alternate coins, all kinds of bad things are still possible, as there is no mechanism to prevent people from starting fractional reserve banking all over. The only way to prevent that is to somehow completely eliminate all trust from all economic activity. Without trust, breach of trust becomes trivially impossible.

If you removed the word “bitcoin” and just created a hypothetical word like “currency X” and focused on its pros and cons, then you could abstractly identify why it would be good or bad.

Transfer speed - X would need to be fast.

Difficulty to counterfeit - X would need to be fraud proof.

How easy it is to custody - X would need to be easy to store with minimal cost.

Inflation - X would need a predictable inflation rate and immune to politics.

If you judge dollars, gold, and bitcoin by such a measure, I would argue Bitcoin holds up well

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#208

Post by amrocha »

ikiris wrote: post #78
jazzyjackson wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's deferring to experts, but whether economists are experts at anything is a hot debate.

It's only a debate if you reject the very principals of science. I realize we're getting there for a lot of people, but merely disbelieving in science is not a refutal of it. This ignores so called Austrian economists however, who are just flat out lying to either themselves or everyone else depending on the person.

Economics isn’t a science though. There’s no scientific rigour to any central banks actions.

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#209

Post by amrocha »

l0ng1nu5 wrote: post #203
ryandamm wrote: post #11

I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. -there is more to an economy than manufacturing. Using manufacturing metrics to rate an economy is like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run: in some contexts correlated with “winning” but in others it’s not. -gold is not a good currency or basis for monetary policy. -these ideas only sound self consistent withou…

> I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. Keynesian economists and now mmt advocates are the reason that most of the productivity gains of the last hundred years have ended up in the hands of a few hundred people while most struggle. I'd say it's high time to stop listening to these people who are nothing more than useful idiots of the elites.

Can you give an example of countries listening to MMT economists?

Re: The Demoralization is just Beginning

#210

Post by saagarjha »

hayst4ck wrote: post #170
ryandamm wrote: post #11

I prefer my economic takes from economists, or people who actually study these things. -there is more to an economy than manufacturing. Using manufacturing metrics to rate an economy is like scoring a soccer game based on how far your players run: in some contexts correlated with “winning” but in others it’s not. -gold is not a good currency or basis for monetary policy. -these ideas only sound self consistent withou…

I think I disagree, specifically because geohot does security. Security is fundamentally about finding the difference between what people wish or think is true, and what is actually true on a mechanical physical real and actionable level. That involves deep analysis skills and disregarding common consensuses in order to rebuild how things actually work from the ground up. Questioning establishment dogma is largely fo…

I do security. It does not make me an expert in economics. In fact I know, even with no real economics education past high school, why going back to the gold standard is generally unworkable.
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