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Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

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Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#201

Post by throwaway48476 »

ben_w wrote: post #183
throwaway48476 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason to believe nuear couldn't benefit from economies of scale.

Everything seen so far does not suggest it will improve. SMRs might, possibly, change that — we shall have to see. I have nothing against SMRs, but they're novel, and I've seen a lot of novel ideas that seem interesting, go nowhere.

Almost all nuclear plants in the west were built in the 70s and 80s. The number built since is miniscule so of course the costs are going to be huge, they're one off projects.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#202

Post by mpweiher »

lovegrenoble wrote: post #135
mpweiher wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually: it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

While CNN's assertion that Russia's economy is on par with Italy's in nominal GDP may be technically accurate, it does not fully consider the economic nuances that are crucial to a comprehensive analysis. This is an example of propaganda.

Well, if it is [technically] correct, then it's obviously not "propaganda", but simply the truth.

Now you obviously can argue that there should be other considerations, but that is your argument and interpretation, not the obvious truth that the actual data needs to be judged against.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#203

Post by snowwrestler »

hoseja wrote: post #182
snowwrestler wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. support of Ukraine fulfills a commitment we signed, and which Russia broke. The U.S. president doesn’t seem to care about international commitments, though. How does that work out in the long run? Would you do business with someone who tells you up front that they might break any promise they make?

Has the US ever honored their word when it mattered? You do business with them because otherwise they roll up with warships.

Yes

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#204

Post by croes »

Etheryte wrote: post #4

I think realistically this is the only way in the turbulent times we live in. Even in the small and interconnected Europe, you have to be completely self sustainable when the need arises. We've seen more than enough broken pipes, power lines and the like in the last year alone to underline this need.

You know how long and expensive it is to build and operate a nuclear powerplant?

And do you really want another target for foreign sabotage?

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#205

Post by flanked-evergl »

tim333 wrote: post #185
flanked-evergl wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no binding commitment that the US broke. You may not like that fact, but it is a fact.

Not legally binding perhaps. > Clinton and Yeltsin did promise Ukraine “full guarantees of security, as a sign of friendship and good neighborliness.” The two leaders also reaffirmed “the obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state,” including Ukraine. Still - guess you have to check the small print.

I'm not even sure they broke any non-binding agreements. But do share any if I'm wrong, I really would like to know.

The words you quoted came out of Yeltsin's mouth, not Clintons:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/30921-document-9-memorand...

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#206

Post by pavlov »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #175
snowwrestler wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. support of Ukraine fulfills a commitment we signed, and which Russia broke. The U.S. president doesn’t seem to care about international commitments, though. How does that work out in the long run? Would you do business with someone who tells you up front that they might break any promise they make?

There is no binding commitment that the US broke. You may not like that fact, but it is a fact.

What's binding between sovereign nations anyway?

Ultimately it comes down to trust. And the current US administration is doing its best to destroy trust built up over the last 80 years.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#207

Post by lqet »

Bayart wrote: post #193
lqet wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the US now showing they are not afraid of doing a "rug pull" on agreements, one starts to wonder if the Netherlands shouldn't start development of nuclear weapons again. This discussion is already looming in Germany, especially now that Elon Musk openly wants the US to leave NATO. There is a standing offer by Macron for Germany to go under French nuclear protection. The UK also appears to be more than willing…

I don't see proliferation in Europe as realistic politically. Europeanising the French program is what makes the most sense in that regard.

There is a lot of planning going on now in Europe, both on international (EU, UK) and national level, that would've been politically impossible just a few months ago.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#208

Post by harolddd »

snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

[flagged]

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#209

Post by FirmwareBurner »

account42 wrote: post #171
throwaway48476 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a list of countries with a nuclear industry but no nuclear weapons program. Taiwan South Korea Japan Germany Sweden Italy UK (not counting trident) Ukraine

What nuclear industry does Germany have?

Nuclear dismantling industry

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#210

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

Yep - Trump's actions are going to weaken the US's position on the world stage by pushing everyone else to provide for themselves what they had previously got from the US (security, advanced compute, etc).

Trump appears to only think in short term transactional way - no long term strategy.

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