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Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

mooreds.com

201–210 of 286 posts

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#201

I like this approach to communication, except the the "deadline" part. I'd prefer my reports just let me know if they are working on something which I may want to veto (because I may have more context as to why it's a waste of time or not a priority). Giving a "deadline" to your manager is strange, and almost like a weird, annoying threat. I also would like to think I would give people on my team enough autonomy to m…

I think the article does a disservice calling it a deadline. I had the same concerns at that point until I read the example and it clicked. It's really just the date you will do the thing, not really a deadline.

Author here. It's a deadline for feedback, which is why I used the word. Other comments have called it an ultimatum.

Both of those might be unnecessarily aggressive terms, but I'm not sure what another one-word term for "time something is going to get done unless you object" is.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#202

While I appreciate the OP's position, I suggest the preference of forgiveness over permission is highly contextual. If you're working on a social networking web site, certainly, move fast and break things. But if you're working on a nuclear launch control system, you probably want to model a "don't launch until authorized" control system instead of a "launch unless told not to" system. That being said... I've used th…

I'm the author. Thanks for your feedback.

Lots of nuance here! I agree that different kinds of orgs and projects and decision scopes all play a role. As does trust between you and your manager, knowledge of what requires feedback, what doesn't, and what is risky enough to require an affirmative response.

But having a bias towards action has been really important for my career. That doesn't mean I haven't flamed out at times, but when I found the right environment with the right level of trust, this technique was super helpful to me.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#204

Nice; instead of burdening your boss with a decision, now you're burdening them with a ultimatum , with a deadline. I guess, as a manager, I wouldn't love anything more than a report saddling me with an arbitrary deadline, one I'd have to schedule along with the rest. One of my managers used to tell me this, instead: ask for forgiveness, not permission. That one seems way saner to me.

> One of my managers used to tell me this, instead: ask for forgiveness, not permission. That one seems way saner to me. So you are suggesting making the change without consultation and then waiting for it to be discovered? I guess that makes sense for certain kinds of situations, but the ones I can imagine don't sound very pleasant. Maybe I'm missing something. What is an example of a situation where you'd take this…

The advice refers to situations where you, the report, are both able and (well-informedly) willing to take full responsibility. "Ability" here means that, if your decision backfires, you can revert it, and/or contain the damage otherwise. Otherwise, you may be willing to take responsibility, but are unable to. In other words, this piece of advice applies to things that are ultimately under your control.

The background is that, even when something is (mostly) in your control, you may be tempted to ask for permission, in advance, just to distribute the responsibility to others (shift the blame, cover your ass). That delays things, and usually the manager will sense that they got burdened with the request-for-permission somewhat needlessly. In those cases, it's better to take initiative, and be accountable later on, because the latter is in your power, in the end.

(Of course, if you and your manager have dedicated time slots anyway, then bringing the topic up is prudent, as it will not require them to scramble for otherwise unallocated time.)

Conversely, if containing the potential damage is indeed not in your power, then you shouldn't go ahead without explicit permission. For things where you simply can't bear responsibility, a timeout from the approver is not a default "yes", but a default "no". If you can't bear responsibility, then you need explicit signoff from someone higher up that, should shit hit the fan, they will bear responsibility on your behalf -- and so a timeout is meaningless (it doesn't give you what you responsibly need).

Whenever you can afford to interpret a timeout whichever way you want, then you don't need to ask the question in the first place (--> don't ask for permission, just revert/contain the damage, if needed). Otherwise (--> the potential damage is beyond you), you need an explicit "yes" (which is the only case when you're off the hook).

The problem with your suggestion is that it assumes that you, as a report, are in a position to set deadlines for your superior(s); in other words, to allocate their time and priorities. Usually the exact opposite is true (by contract): it's your manager who sets your priorities. You can consider their (repeated?) failure to respond timely a true failure, but that doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want; it would be in bad faith / a form of vigilantism. Your option is to leave that manager.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#205
post #195

Nice; instead of burdening your boss with a decision, now you're burdening them with a ultimatum , with a deadline. I guess, as a manager, I wouldn't love anything more than a report saddling me with an arbitrary deadline, one I'd have to schedule along with the rest. One of my managers used to tell me this, instead: ask for forgiveness, not permission. That one seems way saner to me.

An ultimatum implies the manager has no choice- but they can just as easily say "hold up, don't do that until I get a chance to look at it". But if a manager is suspicious of their reports and generally doesn't want them taking initiative, they probably have bigger problems.

> but they can just as easily say "hold up, don't do that until I get a chance to look at it"

This still requires them to take notice of your query, within the deadline of your choice; and that may not be a given.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#207
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the culture of your organisation and how effective management is. If there is nobody that can act like this at your org it shows that your leadership team suffers from failure to delegate.

> It really depends on the culture of your organisation and how effective management is. If there is nobody that can act like this at your org it shows that your leadership team suffers from failure to delegate. I think it's more than just that - upthread I posted that I used this technique for over a decade against a difficult party. This approach is, briefly, for CYA: It's for when you are in the following situatio…

This is such a helpful way of viewing it. I have a principal at work that will comment on things to delay or slow down, and then never revisit after their comments are addressed.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#208

How does this work in a Scrum context? I want to get stuff done but I need to raise a ticket, have the priority agreed, and get it planned into a sprint. Then after these layers of 'asking for yes' I am allowed to work on something without scrutiny. Let's say I wasn't subject to this process, my pull request would still need someone to approve it. Is there a way I can adopt the approach of 'asking for no' with these…

I don't see how this works in the context of scrum as I've seen it done, except in the weak case of you getting to raise the ticket of whatever topic you'd like.

I guess you could ask for no around specific implementation details too? So if you are working on ticket XYZ that could be solved in N ways, you could pick one that might be a bit out of the norm (but still solves the problem) and 'ask for no'.

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#209

To me this is a key change in a direct reports development. When they first start they need to be told what tasks to do; then they develop to asking for permission to do tasks that find or know need to be done; and finally they are telling me they are doing a task so I know we are going in the right direction. These changes give much better autonomy within the team and I am know longer the blocker to progress. It als…

I want to work for you!

Re: Ask for no, don't ask for yes (2022)

#210

This is a critical skill in big companies where everyone is swamped and busy and things get lost. I do this all the time when I’m dealing with people who don’t answer their email, or who tend to stall and delay approvals, or people who are just very busy. I’ll Email and describe the problem and then say the magic phrase “ If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days , I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not a…

> “If I don’t hear back from you in [N] days, I am going to do XYZ on [DAY N].” This way I’m not asking for approval and then helplessly waiting and pinging. I feel this tone is needlessly confrontational. You can very well state "II'm going to do XYZ because of [REASONS]. I'm going to do XYZ on [DAY N]. If anyone objects or has any reservations, please reach out to me." This approach also forces you to present a sou…

> You can very well state "I'm going to do XYZ because of [REASONS]. I'm going to do XYZ on [DAY N]. If anyone objects or has any reservations, please reach out to me."

Love this phrasing.

As other comments have mentioned, you probably don't want to go into the full depths of reasons in the email. Rather have a high level summary with a link to a long form doc or RFC. And of course, the appropriate level of detail depends on how big and wide reaching the action is.

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