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DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

theatlantic.com

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Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#201
IMHO it's a bit of a shame that the productivity and efficiency gains that computing and cybernetics can bring to complex systems -- including government -- are always tainted and currently championed by anti-social elites that use them to break apart these collective machines.

Bureaucracies are a common good, and it should be in everyone's interest to apply state-of-the-art system engineering to make them as valuable as currently possible.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#202
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In most rule of law democracies the law is above the president. The civil servants are beholden to the law as passed by the representatives of the people, the chief executive can only give orders as allowed by the law. Granted there will be times of murkiness that require interpretation. But "fuck it I'm the president and everything I say is legal" is not a valid interpretation in any democracy I know of.

In the USA, both are true. Civil servants can (and should) refuse to follow an order they think is unconstitutional, illegal, or simply unwise. But this won't stop them from being fired for insubordination. I don't think the courts will attempt to force the president to retain subordinates that are actively opposing him on the job.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#203

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

There is no constitutional way the president to not have access to any data in the executive branch. And since doge is reporting to him - it just send the data to the president and he will forward it to whomever he pleases. Even the concept of independent executive agencies is probably more vulnerable constitutionally than more people think.

All the court cases being brought is going to end up in the SCOTUS over https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory . There is a pretty good chance that this will be confirmed.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#204
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dupe]

This is a straw man argument. I don't like Musk. That's true. The reasoning is irrelevant. Let's take someone I do like. Linus Torvalds. If Trump (or Harris or ...) appointed Linus, unilaterally, to do what Musk is doing, I'd still have a problem with it . Now the two responses you might have are: - I don't believe you. - Linus wouldn't be bad either. Both of which completely miss the point. Nobody should have singul…

Imagine if Obama had given Bill Gates a similar role.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#205

I find it wild that apparently there is no law onto which government workers can cling to refuse these requests. Is it all just based on conventions, goodwill and culture?

[dupe]

Yes, so long as there's checks and balances and accountability. The president is not king, just chief executive.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#207
post #153

[flagged]

> You Americans voted for this A thin majority in an election with a poor (and/or constrained) turnout in a lop-sided nonsense of an electoral system with disproportionate weightings voted for parts of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States...

The 2024 election had historically high turnout. The 2nd highest turnout since 1968, the 7th highest since 1932.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States...

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#208
post #31

They will have had to impose this too. The systems were built as separate systems to avoid (in a systems designers most fevered nightmares) a scenario like this.

[flagged]

I can't believe people believe that it's actually an "audit". Both Trump. and Elon are famous liars. The reality is they think they found a loophole to destroy the government without having to pass any laws by fiting as many people as they can and stopping payments randomly. It's all illegal and evil.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#209
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

define "everyone" -- elected officials who are supposed to have oversight and insight into where our tax dollars are going? It's not like they're providing replicas over bittorrent.

Give it time. Centralised access managed by junior engineers pretty much guarantees the data gets stolen. Perhaps the first foreign adversary nation state getting there will patch the security flaws after stealing the data?

A Chinese APT had unfettered access to the Treasury Department, discovered back in December. It's interesting that people are much more excited about new government employees accessing these systems as part of their duties than they are about this.

Re: DOGE has 'god mode' access to government data

#210
post #201

IMHO it's a bit of a shame that the productivity and efficiency gains that computing and cybernetics can bring to complex systems -- including government -- are always tainted and currently championed by anti-social elites that use them to break apart these collective machines. Bureaucracies are a common good, and it should be in everyone's interest to apply state-of-the-art system engineering to make them as valuabl…

Didn't know Max Weber was lurking on HN.
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