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JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

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Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#201

Post by freejazz »

iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #190
parineum wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're just talking to each other, shooting the s*, and it was cool to meet some Junior Devs who were just starting their career. But none of that made me a more productive worker. You're not the only employee of the company. They aren't trying to maximize _your_ output, they're trying to maximize the company's output. You being present for a junior dev to ask quick questions to (the type that don't get asked if the…

Eh, I will be honest. At this point, one has to be willfully unwilling to read the news[1] to state something like this. There absolutely are interests intent on keeping cities alive. I almost wonder if we finally reached a point where 'conspiracy theory' is automatically not only not 'a way to diminish a view', but 'a way to enhance it'. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/02/17/new-york-c...

> I almost wonder if we finally reached a point where 'conspiracy theory' is automatically not only not 'a way to diminish a view', but 'a way to enhance it'.

Uhm, yeah, Trump is president.

Do you live in a city?

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#202

Post by com2kid »

intended wrote: post #179
com2kid wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I submit that this isn’t my reality.I never spontaneously break out a whiteboard., the same way I dont spontaneously break out into a dance routine. Countless times I've walked up to someone and asked "hey can I work through this problem on a whiteboard with you." And while I haven't done so myself, I have had coworkers spontaneously break into dance routines before. (Ok that has only happened once...)

Do you have visas for your timeline ? I’ll immigrate. You have infinity times more dance routines in your time line than in mine. To the point - they’re talking about having water cooler conversations, which spontaneously lead to ideas. If all we really need is better white board tech, people can simply meet twice a week and white board, I.e. hybrid.

My timeline got cancelled because mega corp.

I have however blogged about it! https://meanderingthoughts.hashnode.dev/history-of-microsoft... for the start of the journey.

Turns out if you are designing an embedded OS (https://meanderingthoughts.hashnode.dev/cooperative-multitas...) you end up doing a lot of white boarding.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#203

Post by spokaneplumb »

SirMaster wrote: post #199
spokaneplumb wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My experience is just so different. I love the vibe and the camaraderie of my office. It makes it fun to work there. Me too! If we had free teleporters I'd probably go into the office for at least half my work day, just about every day, voluntarily. ... I don't like it enough to pay about 15 days per year, every year (5 hours commuting per week, times 50 weeks, divided by 16 waking hours per day[1]), hundreds of do…

I mean, I am biased because my commute by car is 10 minutes and there's barely any traffic. But that was also by choice. I chose to locate myself close to the office like that, because I like working in the office at least a lot of the time, and I hate long commutes too. So I sought out and made happen a situation that was to my preferences. I live in a suburb and work at a company that is in the suburbs. It's a manu…

Tensions arise for most folks that can’t easily be resolved by just moving close to work (what if you change jobs, though? Laid off, or too-slow wage increases? Even this is only a partial solution)

It’s not usually a choice to be unhappy, as you seem to be framing it. You live ten minutes from work, but you get a partner, and how far away is your place from their employer? You have kids and all the schools within 20 minutes of your employer are fairly bad, plus the above issue of conflicting partner commutes, and also you can’t just move them between school districts frequently to move around near your current employer.

So yes, lots of people end up with shitty commutes because the alternatives are worse. They’re not choosing that because they’re dumb or choosing to be unhappy, but because of conflicting interests. WFH for one or both adults in a household removes a ton of that tension in ways that basically nothing else can (short of “stay single and never have kids”)

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#204

Post by RestlessMind »

intended wrote: post #101
nielsbot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to say this, but I find in-person discussions more productive than online ones. It's not just shooting the shit--for me, spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions.

Have you ever thought of why? Just ‘magic’, is an open doorway for bias and unreliable memory to enter and influence the conversation. Is it perhaps that there are specific people, who are doing the ideation, or are particularly good at helping you think? Or is it anyone and everyone? If it’s anyone, then is it a social / biological quirk? Is it something else? For everyone reading, this is worth reflecting upon, if…

> Have you ever thought of why?

I have. Here is why in person interaction works better for me. I learn a lot from someone's body language and multiple subtle cues - eye contact, fidgeting, arms and hands, direction in which toes are pointing etc.

They tell me if someone is not telling the truth, or under stress, or is uncomfortable. Then I can coax further details out of them using appropriate means. And most of the times, people want to share a lot of uncomfortable details but have a big mental block preventing them. As a manager, I can also observe the body language of my team members when they interact with each other and identify the dynamics. Whether they are getting along well or whether they have issues with each other.

None of this is available on Zoom. "Hey how is it going?" "Good" is not going to tell me really if you are struggling with something and are not able to share your problems. "What do you think about the new guy on our team?" "He is good" doesn't tell me what you really think of the new guy.

After talking about this to dozens of people, whose job it is to deal with other people, I have realized that this is a widely shared problem. Luckily, the decision makers about RTO are also the ones whose job involves dealing with people.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#205

Post by RestlessMind »

intended wrote: post #180
nunez wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a sales engineer. Given that a big chunk of our job is face-to-face, I can answer this. We are a social species. Body language, eye contact and facial expressions are more important than the spoken word during a conversation. They're also extremely subtle. You don't think about someone leaning in or mimicking your position (that's a thing!) when you're saying something interesting, but we instinctively pick up on…

The point we branched from was to ask what specifically generated the new ideas, out of spontaneous social situations in work places. There’s definitely roles which have to be in person, and those people should come to office. Everyone else - they don’t need to in the same way sales people would. Not all conversations lead to insights, what’s going on then? There’s some specific things happening to lead to the produc…

> There’s definitely roles which have to be in person, and those people should come to office.

For Eng Mangers to do their job effectively, they need engineers in office too. I discussed that in detail in a sibling comment to your parent one.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#206

Post by panarky »

knallfrosch wrote: post #122
TrackerFF wrote: post #4

I think RTO mandates will be the straw that broke the camel's back, for a lot of Americans. Workers in sectors that previously wouldn't even think about unionizing, are now having serious discussions. Going back to commutes, wasting time, for no obvious reason - yeah, that did wake up people. EDIT: I'm talking about rigid 5 days a week RTO policy. As other have pointed out, having a flexible WFH policy is often "good…

I've heard "The Great Resignation" only 2 years ago about quiet quitters and people who would switch employers in a heartbeat when made to RTO. The opposite has happened. Workers are craving jobs harder than since the financial crisis.

Source?

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#207

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

freejazz wrote: post #201
iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I will be honest. At this point, one has to be willfully unwilling to read the news[1] to state something like this. There absolutely are interests intent on keeping cities alive. I almost wonder if we finally reached a point where 'conspiracy theory' is automatically not only not 'a way to diminish a view', but 'a way to enhance it'. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/02/17/new-york-c...

> I almost wonder if we finally reached a point where 'conspiracy theory' is automatically not only not 'a way to diminish a view', but 'a way to enhance it'. Uhm, yeah, Trump is president. Do you live in a city?

Work in a city; live in the suburbs.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#208

Post by switch007 »

drjasonharrison wrote: post #102
nielsbot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that's a side effect, not an intent... but you never know.

the intent of creating an office environment that is pleasant to work in is rarely something that employees provide enough input into. I would argue that the side effect of making an office that disrespects some employees perferences is more than a "blind spot", it's a "I don't give a damn" Examples: - talkative/noisy areas - lighting level - speakerphones/headphones/cellphone conversations - kitchen/ping pong/foosba…

Every place I worked that has sought feedback threw it in the bin because of "costs" - smiled, nodded, agreed, then ignored.

Many people I've worked with gave a damn but were constantly ignored due to costs. Just my experience

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#209

Post by screye »

tharne wrote: post #167
screye wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike RTO because none of that happens anymore. The economic landscape is too paranoid (despite positive macro indicators) for employees to enjoy work. People don't want to chit chat, just clock in clock out. Layoffs threat is ever present. Remote & odd-time zone meetings are still here. Can't turn off my computer after 5pm. In office benefits are limited. Mentoring, learning-seminars and after-work activities ar…

> But, if you could work from anywhere, why wouldn't you want to be in the coolest city in the world? Large cities are like black licorice. The people who like them, really like them, but most of us think they're kind of gross.

It's more like eating meat. You need to get past major mental blocks before getting used to it.

Americans start conversations with assumptions like:

* We need space because all amenities must be privately owned at home

* You should be able to drive everywhere

* 30 minutes driving is the same as 30 minutes on transit

* Street walking & biking are unsafe hobbies, not modes of transport

* The average American city is a representative city.

It's impossible to have conversations with someone who starts from these base assumptions.

Given that cities are uniformly more desired in the rest of the world, the American city hate has to do with deliberate actions that stripped-out cities from 1950s-2000s. In other countries and cities insulated from these changes, the criticisms fall flat.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#210

Post by freejazz »

iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #207
freejazz wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I almost wonder if we finally reached a point where 'conspiracy theory' is automatically not only not 'a way to diminish a view', but 'a way to enhance it'. Uhm, yeah, Trump is president. Do you live in a city?

Work in a city; live in the suburbs.

I don't know what it's like where you are, but I'm in NYC and the thought that the city is so destitute because of WFH policies such that there must be a conspiracy to bring people back is probably the most ridiculous thing I've seen this week.
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