Earlier quoted context omitted.
> veganism is about reducing suffering to a practical extend There is genuine debate around whether plants suffer. The answer seems to be “no,” at least not in a way we’d recognise as suffering. But that ambiguity is more than enough to spawn a movement. Ethically-harvested honey doesn’t harm bees, for instance, and family dairies can blur the line between animal husbandry and petkeeping.
"Ethically" harvested honey means not killing the bees in the process I guess, which is awesome, but there’s still stress induced by removing the food they make and stock for their hives, and the cage around the queen just to be sure she doesn’t go back to the wild. Im not sure how to define ethics anyway but surely I would’t like to be a farm bee, even an ethical one. Familly diaries also comes with they own sets of…
We can mine asteroids for space food
201–210 of 216 posts
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Hydroponics already works. I read something on wired last year on why urban vertical farming never really took off, and one of the reasons was, if I remember, that these kind of environments increase the likelihood of plant disease and the density makes it difficult to arrest any spread. So, I'm not too sure that hydroponics at scale is completely solved.
It's a price problem, not a technical one
How do you define "technical problem" if you ignore the cost of the inputs to your system?
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a price problem, not a technical one
Um. Doesn't technological innovation often make things cheaper? Is this a distinction without a difference, or am I missing something?
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> veganism is about reducing suffering to a practical extend There is genuine debate around whether plants suffer. The answer seems to be “no,” at least not in a way we’d recognise as suffering. But that ambiguity is more than enough to spawn a movement. Ethically-harvested honey doesn’t harm bees, for instance, and family dairies can blur the line between animal husbandry and petkeeping.
"Ethically" harvested honey means not killing the bees in the process I guess, which is awesome, but there’s still stress induced by removing the food they make and stock for their hives, and the cage around the queen just to be sure she doesn’t go back to the wild. Im not sure how to define ethics anyway but surely I would’t like to be a farm bee, even an ethical one. Familly diaries also comes with they own sets of…
Which is just another data point to make the ethics tricky.
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Hydroponics already works. I read something on wired last year on why urban vertical farming never really took off, and one of the reasons was, if I remember, that these kind of environments increase the likelihood of plant disease and the density makes it difficult to arrest any spread. So, I'm not too sure that hydroponics at scale is completely solved.
The big reason is growing food in wide open fields is almost always more economical. Urban farming is mostly advocated for by people who spend too much time in urban areas and don't have a solid grasp on the scale of the rest of the world.
While I agree on your conclusion, your reasoning is not entirely correct; urban farming is a byproduct, at east in MI, of a broken food chain wherein people left in the wake of financial disaster (2008) were left to fend for themselves and had to 'return to the land' while still being forced to stay close-by in order to just survive. Detroit was a food desert, the local, state and Federal government did nothing and corporate interests di-vested mainly from any real healthy options or grocery stores, what was left was what plagues the modern American diet (highly processed junk) and when the people of Detroit realized the help was never coming they took it upon themselves to create what has become the largest urban farming operation in the US.
Again, your conclusion may be correct, these people could not leave Detroit mainly for ecnomic reasons and were therefore 'Urbanites,' but rest assure this was not a hobby-farm approach they took, but rather the sullen and resentful resignation that they must feed themselves: what has since occurred has been amazing to watch, many chefs and artists returned back to Detroit and have made it an impact in self-organization and food security circles.
If I had more time I'd also make an argument for why the economies of scale tend to favor open field farming, but isn't that much better due to the vast needs of Govt. subsidies and the ever diminishing returns on investment when it comes to farming, conventional or organic, or in my case when I farmed: biodynamic.
You need only look to US/European farmers following the path of their Indian counterparts in mass suicides due to the unrelenting pressures and high debt loads in order to feed the masses.
Personally speaking, I think a huge missed opportunity was lost when many of the disillusioned in both West/East took to lying flat or quiet quitting etc... what should have been done was incentivize these people with low no interest loans and give them swaths of land to find purpose in regenerative Agriculture in order to remediate the soils and help offset climate control. Instead they just got chopped up in the meat grinder that is the depressing work force where they wallow in depression and suicidal ideation benefiting no one and making society more precarious day by day by making them gravitate towards extremism.
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a price problem, not a technical one
> It's a price problem, not a technical one. How do you define "technical problem" if you ignore the cost of the inputs to your system?
The sun is free, growing lamps aren't.
Hard to beat free energy.
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#207Add this to the list including Mars habitation and nucleat fussion, of lease valuable and most expensive ways to piss away money.
But for sci-fi brain damaged kidults, this is so neato!
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
From what I understand, Jains are lacto-vegetarian [1]. Vegans draw that line further (because they also don't take milk). As a human being, if you avoid eating plants, or things that eat plants, you die. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism
Jains don’t eat foods like onions and potatoes. But, so far as I know, this is on account of the bugs that may be harmed when harvesting soil-based plants.
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Um. Doesn't technological innovation often make things cheaper? Is this a distinction without a difference, or am I missing something?
It's a hard ask to make space in high-rises in cities cheaper than farmland.
I do wonder though... How much cheaper is it really? What if the externalized costs were factored in?
Currently all manner of costs are put onto the environment rather than the producer or consumer: Soil erosion, soil degradation, fertilizer and pesticide runoff, biodiversity losses, greenhouse gas emissions, etc... All of which are huge issues, which we can't keep ignoring like we are.
And even after ignoring all that), most of 'the West' still needs to heavily subsidize farmers to make them competitive with imported crops.
Re: We can mine asteroids for space food
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do plants take nitrogen from the atmosphere? There's plenty of it available, but my understanding was that molecular nitrogen likes being molecular nitrogen and is difficult to react into a useful form. If plants took nitrogen from the atmosphere, there would be no issue of fixing nitrogen in the ground. But instead, that's a huge issue. We also provide nitrogen fertilizer, which is another way of getting it into the…
Plants in the strictest sense, i.e. the terrestrial descendants of green algae, or even in some wider senses, e.g. all green plants or all eukaryotes that have chloroplasts whose origin is in a primary symbiosis or even all eukaryotes with chloroplasts, cannot take nitrogen from the atmosphere by themselves. Nevertheless, some plants have symbionts that are various kinds of bacteria and which can take nitrogen from t…
That's fair, but it seems similar to noting that the oxygen content of natural air is negligible. It's not really relevant to where things get their oxygen/nitrogen.