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Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#201

Post by peteforde »

BartjeD wrote: post #186
kbos87 wrote: post #137

There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.

It predicts long term consequences on health. Not immediate ones. You wouldn't have noticed at all. Unless you measured your heart muscle weight. It's good to work out. Perhaps it offsets any loss. I get that it's upsetting and might contradict what you think. At this stage we don't know for sure. It's something you might want to keep in mind. Especially if you take this drug without working out.

If someone is taking this medication for the right reasons, the risks of taking it are far lower than those associated with obesity and diabetes.

Also, concern of losing muscle mass on GLP-1 agonists (and diets in general) is well known and typically explained by the responsible MD to the patient.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#202

Post by MBCook »

monero-xmr wrote: post #142
jyscao wrote: post #64

[flagged]

No one seems to remember Fen Phen or its stratospheric rise and fall https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine

That was one of my first thoughts.

It’s perfectly possible for a new hot to have a severe side effect that won’t be noticed for quite a long time.

Semiglutide appears to have undergone final clinical trials in the US around 2017. Given it hasn’t been on the market terribly long and has only an exploded in popularity relatively recently it doesn’t seem like it would be that hard for it to have a serious side effect in a small portion of the population that hadn’t been detected before due to the limited number of people taking it, the amount of time it takes to manifest, or both.

Obviously it’s providing significant benefit that risk could easily be worth it. But as it gets marketed towards more and more people that won’t be true for all of them.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#203

Post by jjallen »

tomhoward wrote: post #181

I'm not commenting specifically on the heart-muscle aspect of the study, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the weight loss from this drug is significantly attributable to muscle loss; it almost always is when dieting. It's the same with keto/low-carb or any other kind of caloric-restrictive dieting (which Ozempic facilitates). The modern weight-loss programs I'm seeing now (at least those aimed mostly at middle-age…

For the people who lift weights while on this/these drugs, how much lean muscle do they lose?

The point is is that most people lose muscle because they’re not lifting. You will lose muscle if you lose weight no matter the cause, if you are not lifting weights.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#204

Post by loeg »

vundercind wrote: post #133
delichon wrote: post #19

It also decreases gut motility, which helps with the intended effect of appetite suppression. Young healthy people tend to shrug at that. As an old person that takes it right off the menu even before I read about accelerated sarcopenea. Maybe it's the same effect on the peristaltic muscles.

A bare glp-1 agonist doesn’t, I think, but the weight loss versions are double-acting and do also slow digestion.

Tirzepatide (Zepbound) is double-acting but semaglutide (Ozempic) isn't. Both are prescribed for weight loss.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#205

Post by loeg »

GenerWork wrote: post #81

I hope they re-run this study with retatrutide vs semaglutide. Apparently retatrutide does a better job at preserving muscle, and some bodybuilders will take small dosages (.5 - 1mg a week) of it in order to lose stubborn fat but keep muscle.

How are bodybuilders getting a phase 2 trial drug still in development by Lilly?

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#206

Post by diath »

kbos87 wrote: post #137

There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.

You did not lose 40 pounds of fat while building lean muscle tissue unless you're BOTH relatively new to weightlifting and use PEDs, in which case, the "hysteria" is justified for an average person.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#207

Post by diath »

The problem with appetite suppression drugs is that they simply make you not feel hungry, but do nothing to fix your lack of discipline and self-control, I'm sure most people who lose weight on these drugs, and then come off, will just go back to their bad habits.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#208

Post by cthalupa »

diath wrote: post #206
kbos87 wrote: post #137

There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.

You did not lose 40 pounds of fat while building lean muscle tissue unless you're BOTH relatively new to weightlifting and use PEDs, in which case, the "hysteria" is justified for an average person.

Just the former is likely enough over a 6 month span, even without great genetics. That's only a 1.6lb/week loss. Noob gains can be huge.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#209

Post by cthalupa »

MBCook wrote: post #202
monero-xmr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one seems to remember Fen Phen or its stratospheric rise and fall https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine

That was one of my first thoughts. It’s perfectly possible for a new hot to have a severe side effect that won’t be noticed for quite a long time. Semiglutide appears to have undergone final clinical trials in the US around 2017. Given it hasn’t been on the market terribly long and has only an exploded in popularity relatively recently it doesn’t seem like it would be that hard for it to have a serious side effect in…

Semaglutide is a 3rd generation GLP-1 agonist, though. We're 20 years in on GLP-1s at this point.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#210

Post by cthalupa »

loeg wrote: post #205
GenerWork wrote: post #81

I hope they re-run this study with retatrutide vs semaglutide. Apparently retatrutide does a better job at preserving muscle, and some bodybuilders will take small dosages (.5 - 1mg a week) of it in order to lose stubborn fat but keep muscle.

How are bodybuilders getting a phase 2 trial drug still in development by Lilly?

China. It's trivial to purchase retatrutide, semaglutide, tirzepatide, and a wide variety of other peptides from Chinese labs, and for pennies on the dollar compared even to compounding pharmacy prices.
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