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Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#201

Post by aithrowawaycomm »

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #85

I know I'm likely alone in this opinion, but corporate income tax seems like a poorly designed tax to me. Why should companies pay taxes in a year with high profits, even if they face losses for the next ten years? Why should I pay corporate income tax when dividends and income are taxed anyway? Corporate income tax also seems to heavily influence business strategies as a consequence, which wasn't its intended purpos…

Any corporation uses roads, mail, police, courts, and other public services, and this usage is not offset by individual income taxes on that corporation's employees, since the employees also use these things. In fact I suspect more resources are spent on serving corporations than serving individual taxpayers - with the important caveat that I am specifically excluding government social insurance programs. But those are often a totally separate tax system.

It is baffling to think that for-profit corporations should be allowed to use public services without paying for them: before a company makes further internal investments with new revenue, it should chip in to society for building the infrastructure that made the revenue possible. A corporate income tax is perfectly natural.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#202

Post by ExoticPearTree »

chollida1 wrote: post #160
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be illegal? Isn't it akin to "right to remain silent"? Why the need to present any information to police unless it is asked by court. Assuming that they didn't delete the data, just moved it to somewhere safe where it couldn't directly be taken away. We had a raid in one of my previous company due to copyright violation due to a user uploaded content. Authorities came in to take in all the codebase, rep…

Because the government already has a warrant to obtain this evidence(they can't raid the office otherwise) and you as the company pushing this button are failing to turn over that evidence.

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Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#203

Post by undersuit »

lacy_tinpot wrote: post #170
immibis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large multinational companies are accustomed to openly breaking the law and getting away with it in the USA; when they try to do the same in Europe they are very surprised when the law actually comes after them. They also raid anyone else they don't like, such as people who run Tor exit nodes... but random small businesses are not in that group.

Maybe this explains why the US is out ahead in GDP, income, and is doing much better pre and post covid than Europe. It's not so much breaking laws, but unnecessary restrictions and harassment by Europeans states. The US is business friendly. It's industry friendly. We don't needlessly harass the business of sovereign individuals, and the state apparatus isn't being used as an excuse as to exert power or influence ov…

As an American surrounded by Superfund sites I would like some of these unnecessary restrictions and harassment by the state. The US is so beholden to private interests we can't even repair the roads or mandate healthcare without making it into a market.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#204

Post by scarface_74 »

gruez wrote: post #119
scarface_74 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those files are hopefully encrypted at rest and probably using a customer managed key…

>using a customer managed key… Not an AWS expert but how does that even work? Does AWS connect to your HSM remotely? Or is a cloud HSM that's also hosted by AWS?

(Source: I am a current high level employee at a third party AWS consulting company and former employee at AWS working in the Professional Services department)

I actually was imprecise with my wording.

A customer managed KMS key is any key that you make instead of using an AWS provided key. AWS still has the means to theoretically decrypt the data.

I am actually referring to a customer managed KMS key where you import your own key material

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/kms/latest/developerguide/import...

There is also CloudHSM

https://aws.amazon.com/cloudhsm/faqs/#:~:text=AWS%20CloudHSM....

I don’t know how far “AWS doesn’t have access to your keys go” when it comes to a government subpoena.

I do know that if anyone accesses anything on your account from AWS, all sorts of internal alarm bells go off at AWS and it would still show up in your CloudTrail logs.

I’m sure there is something that allows internal AWS employees to access your account in unauthorized ways. But I never heard about it in 3.5 years working there in the Professional Services department.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#205

Post by [deleted] »

svieira wrote: post #177
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lawyer, but let’s say the cops were searching my house. If I threw the keys to my unbreakable safe out the window, such that they could never be found, I doubt a judge would care for the distinction. That the evidence exists but cannot be accessed is still going to find you in contempt.

Now let's say that instead you threw the keys to your unbreakable safe to your friend across the Atlantic Ocean. And you say that you didn't know that the people entering were cops. And your friend won't give the keys back. The evidence may exist, you cannot access it, neither can the police. The court has no jurisdiction over your friend and you have no authority to force your friend to give you the keys back. At th…

[deleted]

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#206

Post by gruez »

eastbound wrote: post #192
mewse-hn wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That metaphor doesn't seem directly applicable to cutting off cloud access. If we're trying for a metaphor that would be a similar situation pre-digitization, the cloud servers containing business documents could be considered head office, and the office being raided would be the branch office. The branch office would continually be communicating with head office for their operations, and that communication would be…

By creating a law for seizing the IT system of a company. “Provide everything”, and if we later find that any other document existed back at that time, then it’s contempt of court.

>By creating a law for seizing the IT system of a company

There's already "a law for seizing the IT system of a company", it's called discovery or a subpoena.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#207

Post by telotortium »

eastbound wrote: post #192
mewse-hn wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That metaphor doesn't seem directly applicable to cutting off cloud access. If we're trying for a metaphor that would be a similar situation pre-digitization, the cloud servers containing business documents could be considered head office, and the office being raided would be the branch office. The branch office would continually be communicating with head office for their operations, and that communication would be…

By creating a law for seizing the IT system of a company. “Provide everything”, and if we later find that any other document existed back at that time, then it’s contempt of court.

In the US such a law would likely be declared unconstitutional by the fifth amendment due to being overly broad:

“””

United States v. Bridges, 344 F.3d 1010 (9th Cir. 2003)

There was probable cause to search the defendant’s office based on the information in the application that documented his efforts to provide illegal tax advice to various clients, including undercover agents. The search warrant in this case, however, was overly broad. It listed, among the items to be seized, “All records . . . documents . . . computer hardware and software . . .” Though this list was detailed, it was too expansive. There was simply no boundary to what could be seized. In addition, the warrant did not specify the crimes that were the subject of the search (nor did the warrant incorporate the application) so there was no limitation in that manner. Though the application was detailed, the warrant was not. All evidence should have been suppressed. (No discussion of Leon).

“””

https://casetext.com/analysis/search-and-seizure-particulari...

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#208

Post by gruez »

atoav wrote: post #137
golemotron wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative, giving them a password that gives them read/write access to sensitive systems, would be insane. Subpoena for particular data.

You are aware of the fact that tax evasion means these companies are freeloading on the tax money the rest of us (including: you) are paying? Especially in the case of uber which is essentially using public infrastructure to make their money having them pay taxes should be normal. I agree that customer data needs to be protected, but it is bold to assume that is the case at all with these powerful corporate entities:…

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Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#209

Post by seanhunter »

yunohn wrote: post #37
s_dev wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your information is outdated -- Double Irish is no longer applicable according to your own source since 2010.

No, it’s much more complicated than that. If you scroll a bit further: > After pressure from the EU,[22] the Double Irish BEPS tool was closed to new users in 2015,[citation needed] however, new Irish BEPS tools were created to replace it:[23][24] Not only do the original evaders get to continue doing it, they’ve also found new loopholes already.

Right. Also I wasn't trying (nor am I equipped) to give some kind of current guide to tax dodging. I was explaining the basic sort of thing people do. The specifics change all the time because there is a sort of whack-a-mole that tax authorities try to play to get people to pay and people pay ever more and more inflated fees to various accountants and tax "planning" experts for ever more byzantine and artificial schemes of one kind or another.

My own experience with tax experts has left me pretty jaded about tax advice. It seems to me that often these companies have maybe 1 dude who actually understands tax and an army of people with powerpoint going out selling the "solution". I had a complex tax situation when setting up a business in the UK and US and got tax advice from one of the big four firms not to dodge tax but to make sure I understood the US system correctly and was paying everything I should. I paid so much tax that I got investigated in both the UK and US because they thought there must be some sort of fiddle because I seemed to be paying way more than I sholud be (this was what I told the accountants). I ended up getting rebates from the IRS and from the UK HMRC after the investigations but it took a couple of years to get it all sorted out.

Re: Netflix Europe offices raided in tax fraud probe

#210

Post by ExoticPearTree »

isodev wrote: post #35
seiferteric wrote: post #5

I wonder how these "office raids" would work for remote first companies that don't have much of an office presence and with little or no physical documents and everything being stored in the cloud somewhere.

It depends on the type of business. In the EU, VAT registered companies are usually mandated to have a physical location and local representative within the country of operation. So you can be remote all you want, as long as your company and fiscal representative can be reached at a physical location.

Yes, but you can hire anyone as an administrator and promise them a whole of money if they end up having issues with the law.

I would hire homeless people to “run” the company.

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