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MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

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Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#201

Post by ActorNightly »

vundercind wrote: post #193
ActorNightly wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cause all operating systems are terrible This is code words for "Im emotionally invested into my choice for non logical reasons and its very hard for me to admit I have made the wrong choice".

My choice is also bad. Zero of them are good. All constantly have stupid quality problems or fail to operate as well as they should. It’s a choice between hamburgers that are 30-50% shit, and one that’s 10% shit. Every single one has way too much shit in it. All of them deserve loud, angry complaints about the amount of shit they contain. But if I must eat a hamburger…

>All constantly have stupid quality problems or fail to operate as well as they should.

And my guess is that your "operate as the should" is probably some very personal opinions about how an OS should function based on your personal workflow, that you assume should be the defacto standard.

But for the sake of the argument, lets just assume that your standard is actually optimal from an efficiency standpoint. In that case, the argument to make in case of Mac would be this: Out of the box, Macs are closer to optimal, but technically Linux is is better because you can customize it to be exactly optimal.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#202

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

herpdyderp wrote: post #161
freedomben wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

Hard disagree. Every Linux-running personal computer that I use or have used is a terrible experience. Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week, parts of the OS will randomly stop working each day, the list goes on and on. macOS is not perfect by any means, but at least I can actually get work done on it.

Some of the most productive developers that I've known have been on Linux since the 90's.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#203

Post by mrguyorama »

kbolino wrote: post #108
binary132 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s just not that much better or worth it

It may not be worth it: the ridiculous upfront prices to get enough RAM and SSD space, and the lack of upgradeability of those two components, significantly undermine the value proposition of the Mac platform. But the laptops at least are definitely better quality. The touchpad, charger, screen, keyboard, case, speakers, etc. are all well above the Windows competition in terms of both build quality and durability. Th…

>I really would like every key on my keyboard to still work consistently 2 years after I bought the computer.

You say this as if Apple didn't spend 5 years selling keyboards that were nearly guaranteed to die after a years worth of usage in a slightly dusty environment.

People love Apple hardware because they have a terrible memory for all the flawed hardware Apple always releases and pretends isn't flawed. There are significant design flaws that affect a significant portion of their customers that they just never acknowledge. For example, I only recently learned that my previous work macbook failed in the way it did because a specific short ribbon cable was made shorter for no discernible reason and so some revisions of the 2015 macbook pro just have indescribable screen corruption as a failure mode. Apple doesn't tell you that though, just send it in, let us charge you $1500, and replace half of the computer.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#204

Post by pjmlp »

ActorNightly wrote: post #184
aunty_helen wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard in this camp too. The OS tinkering that is as requirement of Linux racks up a massive time investment. When you use your computer for work, that bill gets big quick and sometimes it's an inconvenience you just can't afford. MacOS, for all it's faults, can be tamed with little snitch and a slower update cycle, and then you have a relatively solid system. There's still some things to hate, like when I take my airp…

I don't get why people still spread the lie that you have to tinker with Linux. Like right now, I can give you a laptop with a clean Linux Mint install, and you never have to touch the terminal for anything system config to do work. Seriously, its not that hard to say that you prefer MacOS because you like the feel of it. It does a lot of handholding for you, unlike Linux, which makes it way less likely for you to me…

Linux on laptops is lots of fun, last one was getting UEFI to even acknowledge there was anything Linux related on a SSD.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#205

Post by FirmwareBurner »

fsflover wrote: post #124
Jerrrrrrry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want their TCP/IP stack and safari browser hot and ready for their demanders of instant gratification. In the long run, they barter this goodwill for "Safari is shit" credit until they and Google force the internet until a browser-turned App-Play-Store war. Both companies win, and can blame the other company - all while incentivising anti-competition behavior and benefiting from their own organizational, yet alt…

> your mobile devices are essentially tracking devices you are addicted to Speak for yourself. Sent from my Librem 5.

Sent from my Nokia 3310

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#206

Post by vundercind »

aunty_helen wrote: post #195
consteval wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you have to tinker with MacOS and not Linux is because you're fine with how MaxOS is set up. So you waste your time in Linux getting it to behave like MacOS. Obviously if you go into it with the assumption MacOS is correct and the more like MacOS you are, the better, then Linux distros will fail horribly. People do this with Windows, too. If you go into it expecting Windows-isms you're gonna be very disapp…

I had macos forced on me when I joined a company writing forex software. You’re right, it sucked learning all the different keyboard shortcuts, learning to use an extra modifier key (now one of my favorite things) and just little things like double clicking a file renames it :/ I thought it was crazy using the butter knife (from the meme) to write serious software. Previously I was a windows admin at a 500 computer s…

The modifier key choice is (among popular solutions) simply correct. I had twoish decades of Windows/Linux shortcuts in my head so it took a few months to get comfortable with a Mac keyboard, but it’s simply better. The cmd key location is excellent, you can feel how much less strain there is in your hand hitting cmd+c vs ctrl-c, and your fingers aren’t pulled away from the home row. Between that and not conflicting with terminal signal shortcuts, it’s the right way to do it (among common choices, anyway—I’m sure someone out there has some custom solution that’s better).

It’s weirdly hard to get Linux to use that keyboard layout and shortcut set, which is a shame. There’s demand for it, and some attempts to make it happen, but it must be really tough to achieve.

Their default English layout is also easily the best of the major options I’ve seen, as far as simply typing English-language text goes. I don’t get why other platforms don’t clone it and use it for their default. No way it can be covered by patents, I think it’s been mostly the same since before OSX. Linux has one alternative layout that’s close to as good, but never seems to be the default English keyboard, for some reason—you have to know you want it.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#207

Post by ActorNightly »

aunty_helen wrote: post #192
ActorNightly wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why people still spread the lie that you have to tinker with Linux. Like right now, I can give you a laptop with a clean Linux Mint install, and you never have to touch the terminal for anything system config to do work. Seriously, its not that hard to say that you prefer MacOS because you like the feel of it. It does a lot of handholding for you, unlike Linux, which makes it way less likely for you to me…

I’ll put this out there, currently there’s no better platform than macOS on apple silicon for developing ai systems. I’m not a stranger to Linux or the command line. I own, use, configure servers as part of my business, including the dreaded on metal cuda install. In fact, the terminal integration in macOS is one of the biggest things over windows for me. But, every time I try linux desktop, for the past 20 years, it…

>there’s no better platform than macOS on apple silicon for developing ai systems.

Lmao WHAT?

The ANE system isn't even remotely useful, since is primarily designed for running Apple AI stuff. This is why its integration is so spotty. IIRC, Tinygrad is faster on apple silicon than pytorch at this moment, solely because they did a whole bunch of reverse engineering.

Laptops for ML is just a lost cause as far as matrix multiply is concerned. Nobody is actually doing any serious work on ML stuff on laptops.

>In fact, the terminal integration in macOS is one of the biggest things over windows for me.

Which is funny, because Windows has WSL2 which works incredibly well, has native CUDA integration for ML tasks thats quite good, has an X server that lets you run GUI apps, and is actually linux (not BSD), without anything to get in your way, and its better because its an isolated system that you don't have to worry about bricking and not having a usable computer.

> stopped using Linux mint after installing it on my desktop and having the screen saver require a hard reboot -sometimes- when trying to wake.

The standard argument of "here is a particular bug that doesn't exist on Macs, therefore Macs are better" lol.

Like I said, its not really that difficult to say that you just prefer the Mac OS experience and end it there. You don't have to go on these weird tangents.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#208

Post by ActorNightly »

justonenote wrote: post #199
ActorNightly wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why people still spread the lie that you have to tinker with Linux. Like right now, I can give you a laptop with a clean Linux Mint install, and you never have to touch the terminal for anything system config to do work. Seriously, its not that hard to say that you prefer MacOS because you like the feel of it. It does a lot of handholding for you, unlike Linux, which makes it way less likely for you to me…

That really depends on what type of work you are doing and your specific combo of hardware. And yes you can do work, but when sleep and power management doesn't work it's a significant QoL downgrade. If you want to use CUDA as a simple example, you'll have to go through the process of using nvidia proprietary drivers and I'm far from well versed on it but that gives me random warnings and I don't quite get the compat…

The only issue that I have ever had with drivers is when the ubuntu automatic install defaulted to the latest open source ones which weren't being recognized.

For a whole bunch of other installations, following official linux instructions on Nvidia works incredibly well. Im probably up to like 30 installs of linux mint on laptops and desktops, without issues. I had a personal laptop with manjaro that suppored nvidia prime, I didn't even have to do anything special, just installed nvidia-smi, and prime-run worked out of the box.

And generally, for equal comparison, I wouldn't consider laptops with discrete graphics to be in the same family as more business oriented Macs, the more apt comparison would be those with AMD chips with integrated video drivers, for which you don't need to fuck with any drivers.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#209

Post by vundercind »

ActorNightly wrote: post #201
vundercind wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My choice is also bad. Zero of them are good. All constantly have stupid quality problems or fail to operate as well as they should. It’s a choice between hamburgers that are 30-50% shit, and one that’s 10% shit. Every single one has way too much shit in it. All of them deserve loud, angry complaints about the amount of shit they contain. But if I must eat a hamburger…

>All constantly have stupid quality problems or fail to operate as well as they should. And my guess is that your "operate as the should" is probably some very personal opinions about how an OS should function based on your personal workflow, that you assume should be the defacto standard. But for the sake of the argument, lets just assume that your standard is actually optimal from an efficiency standpoint. In that…

> Out of the box, Macs are closer to optimal, but technically Linux is is better because you can customize it to be exactly optimal.

If you’ve got a clean solution for getting cmd-style shortcuts so you don’t have to deal with the how-is-this-still-a-thing-in-2024 problem of conflicting shortcuts in terminals, on Linux, I’d love to know what it is. And that’s just the start of it.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#210

Post by vundercind »

nearting wrote: post #191
ActorNightly wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cause all operating systems are terrible This is code words for "Im emotionally invested into my choice for non logical reasons and its very hard for me to admit I have made the wrong choice".

And your response is code for "I'm unfamiliar with the concept of oligopolies, and believe that every consumption choice should be based on logic alone." Come on.

One cause of the problem is that ~99% of the user-facing OS market is steered by three total companies, for sure.

One difficult bit, though, is interoperability. Even absent monopolist BS (and there’s plenty of that) it makes the OS market tend toward winner-take-all.

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