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Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

theguardian.com

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Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#201

Post by jameshart »

pjot wrote: post #61
Spivak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one is honestly confusing. * Error codes — correct. * Their personal codes — correct. * Multiple codes of conduct — correct. And then computer code is used roughly like the noun 'writing' except you can say writings where appropriate.

The difference lies in how we conceptualize the noun: - Computer code is seen as a continuous substance or body of work, like "writing" or "music." - Other types of codes are seen as discrete units or systems. It's similar to how we say "information" (uncountable) but "facts" (countable), even though they're related concepts.

Yes, code is a substance, like sand or iron. The system is built out of code (not codes), just like the table is built out of wood (not woods).

Hearing someone talk about ‘codes’ has the same weird vibe as when they talk about ‘Legos’.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#202

Post by nmeofthestate »

mostlysimilar wrote: post #181
cdumler wrote: post #172

Being an old, grey beard, it's been interesting to see language change in my lifetime. Things I learned: * Third-person singular indefinite ("he or she") can be replaced with third-person plural ("they"). Of course, a lot of changes around recognizing gender. * Final punctuation within the quote at the end of sentence (Did you just say "what?") can be placed after the final quote if the quote is for a literal string…

> * Companies switched from being singular plurals ("Google is deprecating another product.") to plural singulars ("Google are deprecating another product.") > * Moving away from verbed nouns ("Google it") to multipart verbs ("search it up"). Resist! Google is trying to get you to stop Googling things, but we don't have to listen to the corporate overlords.

I think organisations (companies, teams) being singular/plural differs depending on what country you're in, so perhaps this is a bleeding across of conventions due to globalisation.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#203

Post by underlipton »

mattlondon wrote: post #107
nomilk wrote: post #66

I knew of a building named Water's Edge, but spelled "Waters Edge". The absence of a possessive apostrophe was bothersome but I realised there's a case for sacrificing correctness for things like ease of communication and how the words look. An insight from Oscar Wilde: > Mr. Noel, in one of his essays, speaks with much severity of those who prefer sound to sense in poetry. No doubt, this is a very wicked thing to do…

But Waters Edge is totally fine if they mean "by the edge of the waters" and not "the edge belongs to the water". But hey, there are no rules or logic in English so have at it!

Yeah, that could totally be by design. For example,the book "Rainbows End" is not "Rainbow's End" specifically because the meaning of the first is intended, not the second.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#204

Post by rootusrootus »

Ha, from the picture in the article I thought they were talking specifically about the backtick as an apostrophe. I could totally call that the idiot's apostrophe, but in a completely different context than what the Germans are talking about.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#205

Post by hosh »

tivert wrote: post #197
ktosobcy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't mind for English to have "standardisation body" akin to French or German one (or RAE for Spanish) that could maybe get rid of backward, dumb spelling ;) (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_spelling_refo... )

> I wouldn't mind for English to have "standardisation body" akin to French or German one (or RAE for Spanish) that could maybe get rid of backward, dumb spelling ;) That's even less likely now than in the past, with the elite cultural trends in English-speaking countries favoring the adoption of foreign spellings and pronunciation. That just piles on the complexity to unmanageable levels. IMHO, for instance, there's…

Pinyin is pretty good at rendering Manderin in a Latin script. Can you elaborate on what you mean by “English-friendly”?

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#206

Post by bitwize »

lagniappe wrote: post #149

Also, another common one I see more these days is "it's" where it should be "its". If you can not substitute a usage of "it's" for "it has", "it was", or "it is", then you meant to say "its". It is hard to even be angry about it, I think the language should be changed so that any instances of "its" -> "it's" to eliminate the exception.

    Say that you have i-t
    followed by apostrophe
    s, now what does that mean?

    You would not use "it's" in this case!

    As a possessive
    It's a contraction
    What's a contraction?

    Well, it's the shortening of a word
    or group of words by omission of a
    sound or letter.
-- "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#207

Post by Supernaut »

lagniappe wrote: post #149

Also, another common one I see more these days is "it's" where it should be "its". If you can not substitute a usage of "it's" for "it has", "it was", or "it is", then you meant to say "its". It is hard to even be angry about it, I think the language should be changed so that any instances of "its" -> "it's" to eliminate the exception.

In certain academic circles, it's been popular for several decades now to exhibit indifference to the general decline in observance of rules such as this. I find that attitude very regrettable. I can't be the only person who has found themselves having to repeatedly re-read a passage of text to discern its meaning, because the author is ignorant of, or indifferent to the use of apostrophes and/or other forms of punctuation.

These aren't arbitrary rules, for the most part: they came into existence to assist with reading comprehension. The clarity of expression afforded by modern English is a great gift, and I strongly believe that allowing it to degenerate by abandoning these (very simple!) rules will serve only to make written English less expressive and more opaque.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#208

Post by zargon »

cdumler wrote: post #172

Being an old, grey beard, it's been interesting to see language change in my lifetime. Things I learned: * Third-person singular indefinite ("he or she") can be replaced with third-person plural ("they"). Of course, a lot of changes around recognizing gender. * Final punctuation within the quote at the end of sentence (Did you just say "what?") can be placed after the final quote if the quote is for a literal string…

> Companies switched from being singular plurals ("Google is deprecating another product.") to plural singulars ("Google are deprecating another product.")

I thought this was just a difference between American and British English.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#209

Post by Ekaros »

pjot wrote: post #61
Spivak wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one is honestly confusing. * Error codes — correct. * Their personal codes — correct. * Multiple codes of conduct — correct. And then computer code is used roughly like the noun 'writing' except you can say writings where appropriate.

The difference lies in how we conceptualize the noun: - Computer code is seen as a continuous substance or body of work, like "writing" or "music." - Other types of codes are seen as discrete units or systems. It's similar to how we say "information" (uncountable) but "facts" (countable), even though they're related concepts.

Source codes of dependencies. Might be acceptable...

Also why not pluralise all words? Sources codes.

Re: Germans decry influence of English as 'idiot's apostrophe' gets approval

#210

Post by bitwize »

Supernaut wrote: post #207
lagniappe wrote: post #149

Also, another common one I see more these days is "it's" where it should be "its". If you can not substitute a usage of "it's" for "it has", "it was", or "it is", then you meant to say "its". It is hard to even be angry about it, I think the language should be changed so that any instances of "its" -> "it's" to eliminate the exception.

In certain academic circles, it's been popular for several decades now to exhibit indifference to the general decline in observance of rules such as this. I find that attitude very regrettable. I can't be the only person who has found themselves having to repeatedly re-read a passage of text to discern its meaning, because the author is ignorant of, or indifferent to the use of apostrophes and/or other forms of punct…

My wife still fumes that they don't make kids type two spaces after sentence-terminal punctuation anymore. And she still hasn't processed that periods at the end of sentences are, in certain contexts, considered inappropriately arrogant and to be avoided.
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