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Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

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Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#201

Post by didgeoridoo »

ewuhic wrote: post #54

How to fight back when you see this happening at line management level, but not yet proliferated to upper management? Indian product owner taking mostly to Indian peer developers, bypassing normal communication channels. Indians being friendly with each other and stone cold with the rest. Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restauran…

I’ve actually had a very different experience — including in my interactions with Cognizant as a vendor. Indian managers acting utterly cruel and abusive to Indian line workers (especially remote or H1B), while being generally kind and accommodating to non-Indian team members. Maybe there was a class/caste thing at play that was totally opaque to me. It was an extremely uncomfortable environment to work in.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#202

Post by quadrifoliate »

JohnBrookz wrote: post #44

This happened at intel and was very noticeable even back in 2010. Indians hires other Indians. At every company I’ve been at if you were not Indian you were not invited to the conversation. Sitting in meetings where you were excluded from 30% of the conversation was wild. I never felt like they were rude or anything though- just that I was an outsider. Best team I worked with was very diverse and they actively worked…

> Sitting in meetings where you were excluded from 30% of the conversation was wild.

I am curious, was this due to them speaking in a different language in actual professional meetings at Intel? I have often heard these reports, but in a social context.

I have never personally observed this in professional settings; but am curious to hear more so I can watch out for it if/when I do encounter it. It's odd because I would struggle to hold a professional conversation in any of the Indian languages that I speak (I have no idea how to say something like "thermal characteristics" or "power dissipation" in them); and would likely keep lapsing into English.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#203

Post by ethbr1 »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #163
ethbr1 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not the restaurant or jokes, but whether business decisions are made there (or if relationships built there drive business decisions).

Sure, but Americans have been doing this for hundreds of years through exclusionary hobbies like golf, fantasy football, and a hundred other things. That's just how social groups work. They are often cliquey and exclusionary. That's why I think it's weird to only target Indians in this regard. They are building an in-group just like everyone else ; the difference is that OP seems to have little experience not being p…

That's true and they have.

But that doesn't make it okay for others to do.

We should be working to decrease it in all exclusionary groups by working to make them more inclusionary. That means intentionally rotating comfort zones.

And it is a historically seductive siren call that once an immigrant community in any country attains some power, they use it to ramp up exclusion and cronyism.

In all fairness, to protect their tenuous grasp on that power from external racism, but it also succumbs to use for less noble, more human ends. E.g. getting ones friend hired.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#204

Post by wepple »

romwell wrote: post #6
varun_chopra wrote: post #4

Is anyone really surprised? At the risk of sounding racist (though I'm Indian, so I guess I get some leeway here), there are likely more biases at play than it seems. You’ll see South or North Indians from a particular state prefer hiring employees from the same state, who speak the same language, and who look like them. And it doesn’t stop there. Caste discrimination plays a role too, and it even has its own Wiki pa…

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Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#205

Post by swasheck »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #154
loufe wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's an unfairly dismissive take and the "going to restaurants" bit is a mischaracterization at best. There massive difference is WHERE the discrimination is taking place. Most would not move to India or any other place and impose their culture and exclude locals in a fair and just world. I'm not saying it doesn't take place, and yes colonialism happened and was far worse, but we're talking about what SHOUL…

Actually you'll find that this happens a lot. Search up expat communities, for example. They don't necessarily "impose their culture and exclude locals", but they are for and by the expats from a certain country. Seeking "your" people when living/working abroad, or when working in a diverse workspace, is pretty normal and happens everywhere. It's usually harmless though.

i’m not sure that’s the point though. i think the point is lost in op layering restaurants and jokes and such into their narrative. i think the actual point and concern is how being “out-group” affects their employment due to what they perceive as deliberate exclusion.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#206

Post by ttyprintk »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #187
ewuhic wrote: post #54

How to fight back when you see this happening at line management level, but not yet proliferated to upper management? Indian product owner taking mostly to Indian peer developers, bypassing normal communication channels. Indians being friendly with each other and stone cold with the rest. Indians bringing Indian jokes to the table, with no outsider hoping to understand these. Indians bonding to go to Indian restauran…

Now imagine being a minority. You're white colleagues making white jokes. Hiring only white people. Going to white restaurants. Etc... I like when a privileged class gets a contact high of the real world for so many and can't handle it. Employment discrimination is one thing. Having friends and going to lunch is another. For the record, as a white man I've never met, in my entire life, a single Indian person who refu…

I don’t have an opinion if someone is wondering whether one of those cultures is more worthwhile to seek acceptance. But I learned a lot about exclusion from an Indian coworker who was not heterosexual.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#207

Post by throwawayha »

JohnBrookz wrote: post #44

This happened at intel and was very noticeable even back in 2010. Indians hires other Indians. At every company I’ve been at if you were not Indian you were not invited to the conversation. Sitting in meetings where you were excluded from 30% of the conversation was wild. I never felt like they were rude or anything though- just that I was an outsider. Best team I worked with was very diverse and they actively worked…

There was an article exposing it wasn't just for / between Indians.

Indians were actively discriminating against other Indians if they weren't born into the "highest" caste of hinduism (the few percent only allowed to learn to read and write), or avoiding the "lowest caste" of hinduism (way over 90 percent).

This caste system discrimination in tech, is also used to discriminate against other minorities who are not Indian, originating from the Indian subcontinent.

Trapped in Silicon Valley's Hidden Caste System https://www.wired.com/story/trapped-in-silicon-valleys-hidde...

Insight: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/caste-...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/big-techs-big-pro...

More: https://www.google.com/search?q=silicon+valley+caste+system

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#208

Post by throwawayha »

bakugo wrote: post #197
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine being a minority. You're white colleagues making white jokes. Hiring only white people. Going to white restaurants. Etc... I like when a privileged class gets a contact high of the real world for so many and can't handle it. Employment discrimination is one thing. Having friends and going to lunch is another. For the record, as a white man I've never met, in my entire life, a single Indian person who refu…

> You're white colleagues making white jokes. Hiring only white people. Going to white restaurants. Pretty sure white people aren't mass immigrating to India and doing this there.

Eat Pray Love?

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#209

Post by TimedToasts »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #163
ethbr1 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not the restaurant or jokes, but whether business decisions are made there (or if relationships built there drive business decisions).

Sure, but Americans have been doing this for hundreds of years through exclusionary hobbies like golf, fantasy football, and a hundred other things. That's just how social groups work. They are often cliquey and exclusionary. That's why I think it's weird to only target Indians in this regard. They are building an in-group just like everyone else ; the difference is that OP seems to have little experience not being p…

I'm glad that you're admitting this is happening.

Re: Cognizant found guilty of discriminating against non-Indian employees

#210

Post by dopylitty »

JohnBrookz wrote: post #44

This happened at intel and was very noticeable even back in 2010. Indians hires other Indians. At every company I’ve been at if you were not Indian you were not invited to the conversation. Sitting in meetings where you were excluded from 30% of the conversation was wild. I never felt like they were rude or anything though- just that I was an outsider. Best team I worked with was very diverse and they actively worked…

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