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It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

theatlantic.com

201–210 of 599 posts

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#201
post #190

Around the time of the board coup and Sam's 7-trillion media tour, there were multiple, at the time somewhat credible, rumors of major breakthroughs at Open AI -- GPT5, Q*, and possibly another unnamed project with wow-factor. However, almost a year has passed, and OpenAI has only made incremental improvements public. So my question is: What does the AI rumor mill say about that? Was all that just hype-building, or i…

All hype. Remember when the whole "oh we are so scared to release this model" happen back in the day and it was worse than GPT3?

All of these doing the rounds of foreign governments and acting like artificial general intelligence is just around the corner is what got him this fundraising round today. It's all just games.

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#202
post #186

The Atlantic is really going out of their way to hate on Altman. That publication has always been a bit of a whack job of an outfit

> That publication has always been a bit of a whack job of an outfit

This is a bizarre take about a 167-year-old, continuously published magazine.

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#203

A bit of a "dog bites man" story to note that a CEO of a hot company is hyping the future beyond reason. The real story of LLMs is revealed when you posit a magical technology that can print any car part for free. How would the car industry change if someone made a 3D printer that could make any part, including custom parts, with just electricity and air? It is a sea change to manufacturers and distributors, but ther…

> How would the car industry change if someone made a 3D printer that could make any part, including custom parts, with just electricity and air? The invention would never see the light of day. If someone were to invent Star Trek replicators, they'd be buried along with their invention. Best Case it would be quickly captured by the ownership class and only be allowed to be used by officially blessed manufacturing com…

I don't know. Today it's extremely expensive to start new manufacturing competitors. You have to go and ask for tons of capital merely to play the game and likely lose. Anyone with that much capital is probably going to be skeptical of some upstart and consult with established industry leaders. This would be the opportunity for those leaders to step in and take the tech for themselves.

So to solve this problem you need billions to burn on gambles. I guess that's how we ended up with VC's.

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#205
Sam Allan has to be a promoter and true believer. It is his job to do that and he does have new tech that didn’t exist before and it is game changing.

The issue is more that the company is hemorrhaging talent, and doesn’t have a competitive moat.

But luckily this doesn’t affect most of us, rather it will only possibly harm his investors if it doesn’t work out.

If he continues to have access to resources and can hire well and the core tech can progress to new heights, he will likely be okay.

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm paying my subscription and I'd probably pay 5x more if they would charge it to keep access to the current service. ChatGPT 4o is incredibly useful for me today, regardless of whether GPT5 will be good or not. I'm not sure how does that reflect OpenAI cost, but those company costs are just bubbles of air anyway.

Would you be willing to share how you're using it? I keep hearing from people who find these enormous benefits from LLMs. I've been liking them as a search engine (especially finding things buried in bad documentation), but can't seem to find the life-changing part.

[deleted]

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#207
OpenAI cant be working on AGI because they have no arc for production robotics controllers

AGI cannot exist in a box that you can control. We figured that out 20 years ago.

Could they start that? Sure theoretically. However they would have to massively pivot and nobody at OAI are robotics experts

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would the car industry change if someone made a 3D printer that could make any part, including custom parts, with just electricity and air? The invention would never see the light of day. If someone were to invent Star Trek replicators, they'd be buried along with their invention. Best Case it would be quickly captured by the ownership class and only be allowed to be used by officially blessed manufacturing com…

I'm curious if this is true. Are there specific historical examples of this that come to mind?

You're asking for historical examples of great inventions that were hidden from history. I only know of those great inventions that I've hidden...

There are a number of counterexamples though. Henry Ford, etc.

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#209

A bit of a "dog bites man" story to note that a CEO of a hot company is hyping the future beyond reason. The real story of LLMs is revealed when you posit a magical technology that can print any car part for free. How would the car industry change if someone made a 3D printer that could make any part, including custom parts, with just electricity and air? It is a sea change to manufacturers and distributors, but ther…

That's a really good comment and insight, but understandably I think it is aimed at this forum and a technical audience. It landed well for me in terms of the near team impact of LLMs and other models. But outside this forum, I think our field is in a crisis from being very substantially oversold and undersold at the same time.

We have a very limited ability to define human intelligence, so it is almost impossible to know how near or far we are from simulating it. Everyone here knows how much a challenge it is to match average human cognitive abilities in some areas, and human brains run at 20 watts. There are people in power that may take technologists and technology executives at their word and move very large amounts of capital on promises that cannot be fulfilled. There was already an AI Winter 50 years ago, and there are extremely unethical figures in technology right now who can ruin the reputation of our field for a generation.

On the other hand, we have very large numbers of people around the world on the wrong end of a large and increasing wealth gap. Many of those people are just hanging on doing jobs that are actually threatened by AI. They know this, they fear this, and of course they will fight for their and their families lifestyles. This is a setup for large scale violence and instability. If there isn't a policy plan right now, AI will be suffering populist blowback.

Aside from those things, it looks like Sam has lost it. The recent stories about the TSMC meeting, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41668824, was a huge problem. Asking for $7T shows a staggering lack of grounding in reality and how people, businesses, and supply chains work. I wasn't in the room and I don't know if he really sounded like a "podcasting bro", but to make an ask of companies like that with their own capital is insulting to them. There are potential dangers of applying this technology; there are dangers of overpromising the benefits; and neither of them are well served when relatively important people in related industries thing there is a credibility problem in AI.

Re: It's Time to Stop Taking Sam Altman at His Word

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, magically fabricating a part is fundamentally different than magically deciding where and when to do so. AI can magically decide where to put small pieces of code. Its not a leap to imagine that it will later be good at knowing where to put large pieces of code. I don't think it'll get there any time soon, but the boundary is less crisp than your metaphor makes it.

> I dunno, magically fabricating a part is fundamentally different than magically deciding where and when to do so. Right. It sounds to me like you agree and are repeating the comment but are framing as disagreeable. I'm sure I'm missing something.

The person you replied to suggests that the analogy of a 3d printer building a part does not hold, as LLM-based coding systems are able to both "print" some code, and decide where and when to do so.

I tend to agree with them. What people seem to miss about LLM coding systems, IMO:

a) deciding on the capabilities of an LLM to code after a brief browser session with 4o/claude is comparable to waking up a coder in the middle of the night, and having them recite the perfect code right then and there. So a lot of people interact with it that way, decide it's meh, and write it off.

b) most people haven't tinkered with with systems that incorporate more of the tools human developers use day to day. They'd be surprised of what even small, local models can do.

c) LLMs seem perfectly capable to always add another layer of abstraction on top of whatever "thing" they get good at. Good at summaries? Cool, now abstract that for memory. Good at q/a? Cool, now abstract that over document parsing for search. Good at coding? Cool, now abstract that over software architecture.

d) Most people haven't seen any RL-based coding systems yet. That's fun.

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Now, of course the article is perfectly reasonable, and we shouldn't take what any CEO says at face value. But I think the pessimism, especially in coding, is also misplaced, and will ultimately be proven wrong.

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