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Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

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Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is not the entire point of DoH. That’s like saying the entire point of TLS is to prevent users from looking at the traffic being sent to a website. DNS without DoH, DoT, or DoQ, is wide open to anyone snooping traffic in the raw, that’s not necessarily information you want to share with the world.

The entire point of DoH is to take away control of DNS from the OS vendor to the browser. There were other encrypted standards(dnscrypt for example) that didn't require you to do that, but the one that bypasses the OS was forced by adtech monopolist in charge.

No, the point of DoH is to take control of DNS from ISPs (and related middlemen) and give it back to site/service owners (so their settings are not overridden for whatever reason) and the end-user (so their habits are not as easy to disrupt or track at the ISP level).

> but the one that bypasses the OS was forced by adtech monopolist in charge.

Assuming by “adtech monopolist in charge” you mean Google, I don't think taking control from OS would benefit them given they effectively have control of more than two thirds of the mobile market share globally¹ so they are shooting themselves in the foot as much as anyone else – so I assume there are practical reasons², or purely technical ones, for DoH being their preferred choice (assuming that are pushing a preference).

And anyway, there is nothing that says applications have to implement DoH instead of letting the OS do that, Chrom{e|ium} and FF have gone that way in part because base OS support wasn't (isn't?) commonly available/enabled.

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[1] A less than two thirds if you only count the US, as some published figures do, because Apple does rather better there compared to global averages.

[2] isn't dnscrypt's standard still officially a work-in-progress?

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#202
post #174

This is a tough situation. Yes, this can, and will, be abused for tracking users across domains that they don't expect to be related. But there are also legitimate use cases for this. For example, consider the stackexchange family of sites. They are clearly related, have a unified branding, etc. but are on separate domains. On Firefox, which blocks third party cookies, I have to log in to each of those domains separa…

> I can't log in to stackoverflow.com, then go to superuser.com and already be logged in. I would expect a popup like “This site wants to share cookies with stackexchange.com, press Allow to sign in, press Reject to reject forever or press Ignore to decide later”. Takes a single click to enjoy the benefits of both worlds. The mechanism should make sure that every website has a single “first-party domain” shared acros…

Instead you will get a "we and our 3789 partners value your privacy", and people will blame GDPR/whatever regulation for it.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#203

Most people here seem to forget that ads is what pays for the free internet services. The main issue with them is not making the consent more explicit to the user. I think the business model: you either get this for free with ads and targeting, or otherwise you have to pay X, should be more common. I bet most people would pick the free option with ads and targeting.

You don't need pervasive and invasive targeting to run ads.

Google earned billions of dollars with their contextual ads long before pervasive tracking was a thing.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#204
post #7

Does this affect non Chrome users?

It's a proposed web standard, so ultimately yes, it could affect other browsers in the long run. And it would almost certainly affect other Chromium-based browsers.

Since Chrome dominates the browser market, they just pay lip service to the web standards process.

They will have this as proposal, its status will be "not on any standards track", it will be shipped in Chrome, and enabled by default.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#205
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or your favorite websites won't work If my favorite websites stop working with Firefox, they won't be my favorite websites anymore. I'll just stop using them instead.

I'll just stop using them instead. Easily said, until it's your bank, or a government entity, or the electric company, or any of the thousands of other entities that have started blocking Firefox. Firefox should really camouflage its user agent, or make it trivial to do so.

If Firefox changes it UA for these sites, their operators will see even less needs to support the open standards it champions.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#207
post #174

This is a tough situation. Yes, this can, and will, be abused for tracking users across domains that they don't expect to be related. But there are also legitimate use cases for this. For example, consider the stackexchange family of sites. They are clearly related, have a unified branding, etc. but are on separate domains. On Firefox, which blocks third party cookies, I have to log in to each of those domains separa…

> On Firefox, which blocks third party cookies, I have to log in to each of those domains separately. I can't log in to stackoverflow.com, then go to superuser.com and already be logged in. That is a problem that First party sets would solve.

The cure is worse than the disease.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#208
post #174

This is a tough situation. Yes, this can, and will, be abused for tracking users across domains that they don't expect to be related. But there are also legitimate use cases for this. For example, consider the stackexchange family of sites. They are clearly related, have a unified branding, etc. but are on separate domains. On Firefox, which blocks third party cookies, I have to log in to each of those domains separa…

[deleted]

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#209
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the recent antitrust ruling against Google might see Mozilla lose like 80% of their revenue...

A sane company would then give the boot to their overpaid CEO and hire back talented developers. https://lunduke.locals.com/post/5053290/mozilla-2023-annual-...

Lunduke is a known right wing propagandist. Engaging with any of his content is a waste of time.

Re: Chrome is entrenching third-party cookies that will mislead users

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sane company would then give the boot to their overpaid CEO and hire back talented developers. https://lunduke.locals.com/post/5053290/mozilla-2023-annual-...

Lunduke is a known right wing propagandist. Engaging with any of his content is a waste of time.

Thanks for the information. I'm the last person who would spread right wing stuff, the link came from a search, however in this case the problem about the overpaid Mozilla CEO and developers being sacked is real and well known outside politically involved sites.
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